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8Horns

keywords tag as cub ?

by

Is it  really mandatory to add cub as a keyword to my Animaniacs , Tinytoons or similar themes here in this site ?
And  do I really have to add every bit of details of my pics in the keywords ?
Isn't the mature or adult rating enough ?

I already recieved 3 messages like this asking me to do so .
I find it a little bit annoying not because most of the messages are tactless most of the time but we have some users that are haters too .
Viewed: 181 times
Added: 7 years, 7 months ago
 
anz100
7 years, 7 months ago
yes on the cub tag, no on the everything tag, no on the rating being enough.
Alfador
7 years, 7 months ago
I hate to say this because it sounds like I'm agreeing with tactless people and haters--but you really do need to tag stuff properly; it's why the filtering system is supposed to work, because people who don't want to see cub (eg. tactless people and haters) can just block the keyword and never be a thorn in your side.

You don't have to add EVERY bit of detail, but the major themes, species, and gender oughtta be in there at the very least.

The price we pay for having a better tagging system than FA is having to maintain its function.
8Horns
7 years, 7 months ago
Since you mentioned for the betterment of this site .
I will fix those tags later .
DeadEyeJoe
7 years, 7 months ago
I'd go with tagging the major themes too. Makes it easy to find what you want and block what squicks you.
8Horns
7 years, 7 months ago
ok
Shokuji
7 years, 7 months ago
Yeah, this site is basically built on keywords (or tags). The point of keywording a submission is not only so it's easy to find for those who are looking for what ever subject it represents, but also so people who don't want to see that subject. So anything that's considered 'cub' should be keyworded as such; just how all murder (guro) porn, cannibalism (vore) porn, and rape (non-consensual) porn needs to be keyworded too. ^_^;
8Horns
7 years, 7 months ago
I miss the good old days when material like this  was all in your face type kind of submissions .
I suppose I better get on with the times  , I'll fix the tags later then .
thanks for your input . :)
Shokuji
7 years, 7 months ago
Just don't get annoyed about it! You only need like 3-5 keywords, nothing difficult. =3 Perhaps something like this:

1) Who's the artist? (8Horns)
2) Who's in the picture? (dot_warner)
3) What's happening in the picture? (sex)
4) What specific kinks are going on? (cub)
5) Where is it happening? (water_tower)

Easy! =3
GreenReaper
7 years, 7 months ago
And that is what people get, if they want it. Indeed, it is the default, at least after selecting an adult rating. However, there isn't much benefit to forcing people to view artwork they dislike, and it can discourage them from using the site, so we try to avoid it.

Keywords and the associated blocking feature allows us to permit extreme artwork that offends or disgusts significant numbers of people, and which is banned on other sites as a result.
Zeikcied
7 years, 7 months ago
I don't mean this as a shot against you or anything, but I do wish that more people took keyword tagging seriously.

This isn't FA where the keywords are purely optional or used for jokes.  The keyword filtering option relies on submissions being properly tagged, which means you should (at the very least) have the most offensive themes of an image tagged so that people who want to filter that stuff can.  If people don't do that, then one of the most attractive features of Inkbunny is rendered useless.
8Horns
7 years, 7 months ago
ok then ,  I  suppose I have to fix it later then .
ruink
7 years, 7 months ago
I just use basic tags, screw everything else
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
What sort of people are sending you these messages?   o_o   sounds kinda stupid to me.
Shokuji
7 years, 7 months ago
Members are encouraged to send personal messages (to avoid drama). Though they're not encouraged to be asses about it. ^_^;
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
uh huh... yes.

(wonders why you felt the need to say this to her)
Shokuji
7 years, 7 months ago
It sounded like you were confused why people were sending private messages about keywording. Perhaps you were commenting on how they were doing it in a rude manner? o.o Probably my misunderstanding. *shrugs*
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
Ah I see... More so... why they would bother about doing it in the first place as if it were important in life.
Shokuji
7 years, 7 months ago
Says the person posting in the first place. ^_^; I'll just leave it at that.
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
1:  I LOVE your avy

2: Don't misunderstand me. I find it odd that people are messaging 8horns over something like that so much that it warrented this. I wondered what sort of person would find something like that so important it's worth taking time out of an artists already limited time to discuss it.  Surely there are more important things in life...?
Shokuji
7 years, 7 months ago
Hum.. well the same could be said about lots of what we do. Most of what we're doing is not important when you think about it. Aside from water, food, shelter nothing else is nearly as important as those. But when you relate the lack of keywords to a site that's built on submissions getting properly keyworded, then it's a tad more important when you keep in in context.

Personally I'm happy that they're trying to change things for the better rather than just leave w/o saying anything at all. I really want people to keyword properly too, but I know there are some good things in the pipeline that are coming soon so I'm not freaking out about it. (not like I'd -actually- freak out about it anyways.. but you know what I mean)

Sorry for semi-misunderstanding. =3
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
Kind of a silly argument. Yes if we were relying on survival of the fittest then yes, it would be really absurd. o_O   might as well say it's cold here, but can't complain because Antarctica is colder. O_o

Anyway, it's odd to pester an artist about keywords when in the end, it just isn't important to either the artist, of the viewers.
Masque
7 years, 7 months ago
Ah, but it is important to some viewers. Mostly the ones who don't want to see "X" in their art, but also for those doing searches to find more art with "X" in it. By not tagging, an artist is both annoying those who don't want to see "X" and losing out on attracting more viewers who do want to see "X".
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
Catering to people is usually not the reason an artist draws, and those that do are beaten down by it and usually lose interest in drawing over it.

I will point out though that I do understand the position you raise, however some people are annoyed to the point they are pestering an artist about it..... an artist, who posts their stuff for FREE and they get to enjoy the fruits of THEIR labor for FREE. Who are they to complain? Are they so ungrateful that they feel it justified to pester an artist about tags to the point he feels compelled to post a journal about it?

People so readily forget the art they are enjoying is a privilege not a right.
Masque
7 years, 7 months ago
While I appreciate the sentiment, I think you've mixed up a few things here. Just because something is free, it does not follow that it's wanted. Some folks just do not want to see certain subjects, and they have a right to encourage artists to properly tag their works so that it won't show up for them.

Simply making stuff available for free does not exclude you from considering how it impacts the people around you. And it helps to tag images, because then more people who do want to see it can find it. Tagging is a win-win for the artist, and politely reminding them to tag is not a problem. If people are harassing the artist, yes, that's wrong.
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
It isn't a matter of it being wanted or not, it's a matter of people who don't like it, to not look at it.

Tags do help, I'm not suggesting nor implying differently. All I'm saying is harassing an artist for free stuff strikes me as odd. Politely and encouraging an artist to tag art is very different isn't it?
Masque
7 years, 7 months ago
Oh, and in regards to:
" CrystalMendrilia wrote:
It isn't a matter of it being wanted or not, it's a matter of people who don't like it, to not look at it.


The point of tagging is so that people don't have to look at it. :)

" Tags do help, I'm not suggesting nor implying differently. All I'm saying is harassing an artist for free stuff strikes me as odd. Politely and encouraging an artist to tag art is very different isn't it?


Oh yes! I think you, I and Wolfblade all agree that harassment is a bad thing. No artist should be intimidated or insulted about tagging or lack thereof, but polite requests to tag should at least be acknowledged.
Wolfblade
7 years, 7 months ago
The site terms specifically say that users are encouraged to politely and privately suggest tags to an artist if there's something they neglected to add themselves. The filter system is a powerful feature designed to make the site more enjoyable and less drama-prone for EVERYONE regardless of personal tastes. For people who have often been subjected to nonsense harassment or criticism simply for drawing a particular subject, it should be expected that they'd be able to show consideration for others just as they'd like to have for themselves.

If someone harasses an artist for what they draw, that's not acceptable and can be a matter for moderators to handle. But artists should be expected to make use of the tools and features provided for everyone's benefit to avoid those situations to begin with.

It isn't about "this isn't important" or taking things too seriously. It's the very simple matter of this site being intended as an enjoyable and hospitable environment for all kinds of people, and that does mean a little bit of effort from all of us to help keep it that way.
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
That my friend is a case made. though I still am against the idea of people harassing the artist over it. The reason it isn't a particular big deal to me, is my view that people who want to be offended, try real hard to be offended. I've had my share of people offended by my works before.  But you do make a good case for it, though if they really want artists to use tags more, they should have a system where it's more point and click then a reliance on manual typing. Not many people can type even remotely decently and it gets very tedious especially after having slaved to a picture for hours.

Overall I think we see eye to eye here. Thank you. ^_^
Wolfblade
7 years, 7 months ago
I am very against any person being harassed for their tastes in purely fiction/makebelieve/fantasy stuff.

There's a big difference between harassing someone over it, and simply asking them to use the site the way it's intended to function, though.

I do think we mostly see eye to eye, I just feel very strongly that the distinction there needs to be clear. A lot of people take >any< remarks that aren't "I enjoy this too" as being harassing or insulting. If someone is simply stating that they don't enjoy something and would appreciate being able to use the feature given to them to let them avoid it, but which only works if the artists properly tag their work, that should not be viewed as harassment or even something to be bothered by.

And yeah, back during the beta stage of the site, we were working on point and click list of tags rather than manually entered tags, and the reality of that was that it would just be impossible to have a complete list of tags people would want to use. There are near-infinite fetishes or kinks, and almost every one of them has sub-kinks that would need their own tags, etc. So manually entered tags were decided to be the most practical way to go.
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
Well I fail to see any area we don't agree on here, at least on the topic.


If you guys wanted to take the tags seriously, you should have put in a system where the users can add tags too, while giving the artist the ability to police the tags themselves to make sure silly ones or wrong ones didn't take hold, and have people 'vote' on it... kind of like... I can't think of a site that does that but I've seen a few times. :3

Just pointing out, it'd eliminate the issues that have been brought up.
Wolfblade
7 years, 7 months ago
I do believe something along those lines is being worked on.

And it didn't seem like the tags were of particular issue until the recent mass migrations from FA. With people bulk-uploading tons of stuff at once, it's somewhat understandable that a lot of people didn't take the time to tag (especially since keywords were pretty much entirely pointless on FA until very recently). But then, that would be why people are pointing out the need for tagging to the newcomers. Not to harass or pester, simply to make the new people aware of a very important difference between how this site works compared to others.
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
I'm glad to hear something like that is being worked, not that it involves me too much. I only spoke up in reference to harassing artists.   ^_^

Oh yes, I understand that too. Again, I really don't think you and I disagree on anything here. still.
Masque
7 years, 7 months ago
My big concern with user-added tags is that it's open to abuse. Especially if someone decides to tag an image "cub" when it's not, or to tag a tasteful nude as "porn" or "obscene." And of course, there's always sheer vandalism, like adding a tag that's just gibberish characters over and over.

I'd prefer someone suggest tags to an artist in comments than to enable user-tagging for the site.
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
Well that issue wouldn't exist in the system I suggested because the artist would be able to police it.
Masque
7 years, 7 months ago
It'd still exist. Trust me, I've dealt with enough trolls to know that getting their tag removed wouldn't stop them from re-adding it repeatedly. And you don't want to see what happens when the 4chan crowd gets involved. x.x
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
So it gets odd tags. Explain to me the harm in this?
Masque
7 years, 7 months ago
You were concerned about harassing artists? Allowing anyone to tag art is ripe for abuse and harassment. People will use a system like that to post intimidating messages to artists they don't like, spam abusive comments and generally make the tagging system useless. And if you get a particularly persistent person or group of people, they can spam tags faster than you can delete them. Ban the account, and they'll make new ones.

I've dealt with a lot of trolls on various sites, and it's remarkable just how far they'll go for what they consider a laugh at others expense.
CrystalMendrilia
7 years, 7 months ago
I can see you've dealt with a lot of trolls, but I think you don't understand the psychology of trolls. I would suggest a new method of not feeding them so much. You seem to think of trolls the way Americans think of Terrorists.

*shrugs* Well as we do not disagree pretty much anywhere apart from what tagging system would be more effective for the goals you've outlined, I'm going to move on with life.   I only spoke up against abusing artists over something like tags, nothing more and I'm not going to enter a philosophical or intellectual debate about trolls nor how to make an efficient tagging system.
Masque
7 years, 7 months ago
... alright then. I think I understand trolls very well, and it's not a matter of feeding them when it comes to this sort of thing.
starling
7 years, 7 months ago
Yeah like people already said, tagging helps people block or find your work. So it makes the site better to use!
TwoTails
7 years, 7 months ago
Animaniacs are even harder to judge, they're meant to look like 10 to 15 but are 70+ years old as stated in the shows.
Wacko and Dot might loosely qualify as cub, but I would just go the "shota" or "loli" tags personally.

Though I tend to refuse using a cub tag on teen equivalent characters, since people tend to assume its diaper stuff and the fact actual animal experts make the distinction of adolescent animals too, I just ban and reserve reporting to any harassment ( their opinion on what it is I drawn I know, not them, its like morons telling an apple farmer they should stop growing vegetables).

To be blunt if cub tags for teen characters become mandatory here, then fuck this place too.
Me and many others have zero tolerance for retarded rules.
If it has to be mandatory then teens should be tagged teen then, cub for obviously undeveloped characters.
8Horns
7 years, 7 months ago
I never considered A! and TT cubs .
And I only apply shota and loli to human cartoons .
Anyway it's all silly and just sucks that people have to make a big deal about it .
Shokuji
7 years, 7 months ago
Shota & Loli is generally reserved for human arts. Best to just use Cub for furry stuff.
biggerstaff
7 years, 7 months ago
Tags should be much more used than they are, if only for ease of access through searches. I mean, I've found stuff just randomly browsing that I'd searched for multiple ways and never found, because it wasn't tagged properly. True, it's a hassle to have to do, but eventually it becomes habit. And it's not like we're talking every detail tagged - just the characters (if they have names, of course), genre (if it can be called that), and species would be enough for me.

And yea, in my opinion, anything that looks cub should probably be tagged as such, so the intolerant can block it and so those like me can actually find it.
Shokuji
7 years, 7 months ago
Perhaps we should all adopt a keyword that people can add to their search/block lists. Like "psudo-cub" or "cub-like" or whatever.
Heckfire
7 years, 7 months ago
Maybe you should ask Kayla about this, LMAO

...sorry, this journal popped up at the same time as one of her's about "Tag Your Damn Stuff!" The coincidence made me laugh.
8Horns
7 years, 7 months ago
thats bs  why is she even here in the first place ?
Joeyboy
7 years, 7 months ago
Aren't Dot and her brothers technically 60+ years old? ;o)
Shokuji
7 years, 7 months ago
That's always a conundrum isn't it. =3
" My character became a vampire at 7 years old, looks like a 7 year old but has lived for over 1000 years already.
I've suggested this above, perhaps we should all adopt a new keyword like "cub-like" or something so people will have something to look for (or block).

GreenReaper
7 years, 7 months ago
Inkbunny is intended to be a home for all furry artists and their fans. Just as not everyone likes to see porn, even if they are adults, not everyone likes to see your porn. Rather than remove it as some other sites have done, our policy is to provide the technical means for users to block it.

This requires a little effort on your part as well. The benefit is a larger community which supports the upkeep of the site, and a lot less friction between people who like certain kinds of art and those who do not. It also helps people who do want it to find your work!
Thrashyiff
7 years, 7 months ago
No, the mature rating is not enough. It takes seconds to add the tags 'cub' or 'diaper' or 'vore' or whatever descriptive tag would be useful to describe the art. It's simple courtesy to those with different tastes than yourself.
plainwalk
7 years, 7 months ago
Personally, I don't really care about cub or such, but I have things I know I don't want to see (such as females), and I am a fan of having a few tags added (gender, orientation, and fetish) to make things easier to find or avoid.  
Wolfblade
7 years, 7 months ago
Avoiding the annoyance of having people bother you for drawing something they don't want to see is one of the main points of the filter system.

You don't see why it's such a big deal for others wanting you to tag your stuff, other people don't see why it's such a big deal for you not wanting to tag it. The filter system exists to make the site better for EVERYONE. Rather than forcing a site to A: choose sides or B: deal with (or ignore) the drama around people arguing their preferences, it gives an option that makes the site more enjoyable and pleasant for everyone.

Tagging your stuff makes it easier to be found by people who want to see it, and hides it from people who don't want to see it (sparing everyone the bother). It literally takes only seconds to at least add tags that you know people wanting to find OR avoid would apply yo tour images. There's just no valid reason to not do it other than specifically wanting to expose people to it who don't want to be exposed to it. Which is just as silly as people wanting to outright ban stuff they don't want to see.
KHDN
7 years, 7 months ago
I guess it's not mandatory - as in, it won't get you banned if you don't.

Please, for the love of whatever deities you believe in, do it anyway.
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