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Aval0nX

Continuing the Retardation

Ok...this is just went from retarded to FUCKING Retarded...

https://imgur.com/jnDAd60
Viewed: 4,534 times
Added: 4 years, 11 months ago
 
Lex
Lex
4 years, 11 months ago
"We don't like what you do, so you can't use our platform"
-Patreon
LaResistenze
4 years, 11 months ago
Make lewds advertising for subscribestar
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
You do realize patreon is an american based company and federal law makes ANY depiction of a minor, even if they are fictional, illegal and thus patreon would be liable to get sued if it's used to fund the creation of such content
Tai
Tai
4 years, 11 months ago
That isn't an American law oddly enough.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
it is actually gimme a min to find the actual law and link ya to it

found it quicker than i expected: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1466A
TanukiArts
4 years, 11 months ago
I thought this law only applied to the depiction of actual human minors.

I believe this is the basis as to why inkbunny is allowed to exist as it does, banning all sexual human content.

Last time I checked, Babbysitting Cream depicted no human characters at all.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
Inkbunny is allowed cause (as far as i know) the servers are actually in the Netherlands which have better artistic freedom laws. And while technically the law is indeed meant as depiction of human children it's still a dangerous one cause it does not specify its just for humans meaning it takes just one single court case to set precedent to make it include cubs
TanukiArts
4 years, 11 months ago
Actually no, a huge chunk of IB's servers are located in the US.

https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Inkbunny

And until he such a precedent is actually set, cub is still legally exempt from such law.  Just because you want it to be otherwise, does not change the fact.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
And what large company has ever not stayed on the safe side of such laws and thus went ahead of what could possibly become precedent? i know that i would stay on the safe side of these laws if i had a company cause i'd rather deal with the occasional pissed off user than suddenly have to deal with the FBI once the law changes
TanukiArts
4 years, 11 months ago
That may be the case, but that still doesn't change the fact that they are being unfairly biased to a user who hasn't actually hosted any of the said content on their site, and at worse, cropped images that do not contain the actual sexuality that violates their ToS (you would know this if you read the previous journal as well as the comments on said journalby this user).

They are judging him and mistreating his account solely based on who he is and his reputation, not what he's done on their platform.  As far as company liability goes, the FBI can't actually hold the company Patreon liable for just allowing Aval0nX to have an account free of actual sexual content depicting minors, human or not.

What this actually comes down to is personal bias of this representative and his dislike of Aval0nX's content on other platforms, and is using Patreon as an excuse to fuck him over.

Because keep in mind, Aval0nX even cleaned up the content they claimed to be against their ToS (even though it actually wasn't), and is imposing extra hurdles to get his account back, which are not actually a part of owning a patreon account at all nor a part of the ToS as far as I know.

This isn't a case of "Do this in order to protect Patreon from liability", this is more "Do this because I don't like you/what you do and thus going to make you  bow to my whims if you want a chance of getting your account back."

It's actually a disgusting display of power.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
There is a part in their ToS though that states that you can not use the site to fund (possibly) illegal content even if that content is not hosted on the site, so they are still within their right to do this. Is it an extreme measure? sure, but you can hardly blame the company for something caused by a broken ancient law that needs to be changed.
TanukiArts
4 years, 11 months ago
However they can't actually prove that the money he raises via patreon is being used to fund illegal content (and we just established that his content isn't actually illegal within the US anyway. Highly frowned upon and a ticking time bomb, but not actually illegal.)  For all they know, he could jsut use the money to buy groceries or video game,s or something else completely unrelated to actually producing any art they deem obscene.  He can not get a cent from patreon and that wouldn't actually stop him from making the content he does here on IB.  The only way they could actually enforce that is if commissions directly between Aval0nX and patreon users are made directly using the patreon platform and paid directly via a pledge.

So if he's not doing that, nor using Patreon to link offsite to content they feel violates their ToS, your argument is completely moot.

Also the extra hurdles being imposed on restoring his account, after abiding by the changes swiftly and obediently are still completely unnecessary, and a gross display of power.

He is still being treated unfairly.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
This is how i would go about proving the money was used to fund illegal content if i were the lawyer:
The money was used to buy food, which kept the artist alive to draw the illegal content thus funding the creation of the content.

And while yes it is not illegal yet there seems to be a slow shift against cub content (discord folding over to ban it being a major noticeable one) and maybe patreon just wants to get ahead of things like discord did.

This could of course very well just be a case of power abuse by a mod that just personally disagrees with the kind of content being created, this however still is not neccesarily a problem with patreon as a company, more so a problem that it's hard to take cases like these higher up to a person that posibly has more professional integrity and can over rule the moderator.
TanukiArts
4 years, 11 months ago
That logic at the beginning of your post....that is fucking insane, and the kind of supremely dangerous thinking that violates basic human rights.  You can't honestly believe in such nonsense could you?

Because if so, I am done with this.  There is no point in trying to debate with a crazy person.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
It's the logic any basic lawyer trying to prove their case would use though and in the current legal system it would probably hold up in court as well if you have a little bad luck with the judge doing the case. The same logic is already used in drug cases and such after all.
ARUFUREDO
4 years, 11 months ago
Tanuki

you realize Repstar is nothing but a troll who gets kicks out of your misery right just ignore him and he will go cry to somebody else
KevinSnowpaw
4 years, 11 months ago
the law is exceptionally misleading, it does to apply to anything that is not a drawing that used a minor as a model or that is otherwise indistinguishable from the real thing AKA perfectly photo realistic. Anything else is far to stylized and falls outed protect material. At least for now.

Furry stuff is even more safe becouse it depicts and entirely ficticous creature even if it appears to be "underaged? this law is in regards to human children not figments of our imagination.
Keeran
4 years, 11 months ago
I think you told me,  there was a three-point rule concerning even human lolicon/shotacon as well that couldn't apply.
KevinSnowpaw
4 years, 11 months ago
theres also issues with US law and pronography and obcenity that make a LOT of laws like this unenforceable.
Keeran
4 years, 11 months ago
Technically, if you're referring to that law,  it was part of the PROTECT Act of 2003, which was  outlawed as constitutional.
There were multiple cases of this happening and the Supreme court ruled in favor of the defendants. That is to say, that you aren't exempt from obscenity laws.
KevinSnowpaw
4 years, 11 months ago
this
Keeran
4 years, 11 months ago
This actually compiles the history concerning lolicon/shotacon laws here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_drawn_por...
Keeran
4 years, 11 months ago
Yeah, the thing is, if it's in Patreon's ToS, they could have the right to refuse, rescind, or remove their services for any given reason. My best advice for Avalon is to make some work,  show off some old shit that fits the guidelines, like any of his adult-on adult work, etc, but not actually show any cub content at all on the Patreon. It would be foolish on Patreon's end if  they denied service based on pure speculation, despite it being their right to do so.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
I mean Discord banned me for talking about my mental health issues in the context of getting therapy for them and how i deal with having them in my daily life just because some of those mental health issues include pedo- and zoophilia so dont think companies are above doing foolish stuff like that XD discord got away with it due to the beautiful sentence in their ToS that goes: "Discord has the right to deny service to anyone for any reason"
Keeran
4 years, 11 months ago
" Repstar wrote:
I mean Discord banned me for talking about my mental health issues in the context of getting therapy for them and how i deal with having them in my daily life just because some of those mental health issues include pedo- and zoophilia so dont think companies are above doing foolish stuff like that XD discord got away with it due to the beautiful sentence in their ToS that goes: "Discord has the right to deny service to anyone for any reason"


Unfortunately, that is the nature of the beast. If you sign up for their service, and they state that,  then there's not much you can do other than go to another platform.

Personally, i think this whole pedophile scare needs to be approached in a way that can help people who struggle with it instead of alienate them. We oftentimes create our own monsters when we  isolate instead of rehabilitate.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
Indeed, i've seen this happen in person with people from my therapy groups, they did not get accepted by the people around them, slowly stopped coming cause they did not have enough support and then someday you read the news and you're like, wait, that name sounds familiar. it's a scary thing to see happen cause it makes you realize it could have been you if things had gone just a little bit different. I use cub and loli/shota content as a safe harmless way to cope with my issues, i have had a lot of therapy to help me guide myself in this coping process to prevent it from backfiring and making things worse. I basically view this type of content as my medicine that i just need to occasionally take in to prevent my problems from growing to large. I'm very lucky to live in a place where the focus is put way more on therapy and prevention through support and help than it is on punishment and scare tactics.
Keeran
4 years, 11 months ago
Yeah,  At some point,  people are going to realize that, but I fear it'll be too late.
DarkMacroMaster
4 years, 11 months ago
It's a tricky topic. On one hand, it's giving those people the help and understanding they need to adapt and change. On the other hand, as widespread and common as these issues are, by even offering them understanding, you run the risk of "normalizing" it. Even if we all recognize something as wrong, if it's common enough, it will become normalized and adopted anyway. Take alcoholism, for example. It's an issue that I've given a lot of thought to, and still don't have an answer for.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
Well a line that could be easily draw is that for the kind of therapy i'm talking about is you need to have not committed any illegal acts drawing a line between practicing and nonpracticing.
kamimatsu
4 years, 11 months ago
Bad Dragon?
Lerianis
4 years, 9 months ago
Repstar, you would be wrong on this subject. I have relatives in the FBI and they have said numerous times "Lolicon is legal in the United States of America, that law in question was overturned by a Supreme Court ruling in the past!"

The only thing that is absolutely illegal? Actual CP of actual real life minors. Even 'fakes' are legal if a picture of the minor in question was not used in the creation of it, though it is hard as hell to prove that a real life picture of a child was not used to make a 'fake' which is why it is relatively easy to get a conviction for 'fakes'.
TheLunatic25
4 years, 11 months ago
There are 3 aspects to US law; the only one that is out and out illegal is depicting real children.

If it is something that cannot exist, such as a biped fox cub that talks, that is actually ok under US law, as is any fictional creation in so long as no minors were abused in said creation of said material.

I’m sure it came up somewhere in that long discussion, but that is the short version of this whole thing.
DarkMacroMaster
4 years, 11 months ago
Actually, it's explicitly stated that:

" The PROTECT Act also enacted 18 U.S.C. § 1466A, which criminalizes material that has "a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture or painting", that "depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct and is "obscene" or "depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in ... sexual intercourse ... and lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value".


While this aspect has been hotly disputed and even called "unconstitutional" at times, people still get tried and charged in accordance to it, meaning that it is still illegal in practice. In the most recent case, a man was sentenced to 3 years in prison, even after a plea deal. Like any crime, you can be found innocent of it, in the court of law, but it's still, at it's core, illegal.
TheLunatic25
4 years, 11 months ago
I had to go find where this was, as I had been reading up on the subject on Wikipedia. Strange I didn’t run into this before, but here’s where it gets sticky: it has to seemed as obscene or seriously lacking any kind of value in pretty much any regard.

Which can be a tricky thing in and of itself to prove or disprove;  just looking down that page, teenagers have been tried as adults for having pictures of themselves naked. Which is such a bizarrely strange thing to have to even bring up...

But to the best of my knowledge, what I said is still not untrue in that the US views drawn materials differently from actual photos and videos, for precisely the reason as stated above. It would require more research that I am currently unable to follow up on at this moment.
DarkMacroMaster
4 years, 11 months ago
" TheLunatic25 wrote:
But to the best of my knowledge, what I said is still not untrue in that the US views drawn materials differently from actual photos and videos, for precisely the reason as stated above. It would require more research that I am currently unable to follow up on at this moment.


Theoretically, you are right, but, you can still be prosecuted and punished for it, and, in my view: so long as you CAN be arrested and convicted for it, it's illegal.
Lerianis
4 years, 9 months ago
No, you cannot. Numerous localities and states have stopped doing prosecutions of people for lolicon artwork because they realize that due to the ruling against COPPA and COPA that law in question is on very thin ice.

I have relatives in federal law enforcement and even they have said "We do not bother with it because it is impossible to get a conviction that as soon as someone brings up that Supreme Court ruling would not be overturned! The only time we intervene? If we have proof that someone has actual real live CP of an actual real life child!"
DarkMacroMaster
4 years, 9 months ago
You're using anecdote to draw a conclusion. You can't do that. The fact remains that there are many places in the US, that, if caught looking at lolicon, you will be arrested and sent to prison as if it were the real thing, and, in fact, that it CAN happen anywhere in the US. That's what the law says, and, until the law is specifically amended to exclude lolicon, people are at just as much risk by viewing it, regardless of how many officials decide to personally give it a pass.

Telling people otherwise puts them at risk. If someone is going to look at lolicon in the US, they deserve to know the danger they are putting themselves in.
FoxyIbLover
4 years, 11 months ago
pornographic depiction? otherwise any photo of your child would get you into trouble =)
DiogenesShandor
4 years, 11 months ago
Not according to the supreme court
AveOwO
4 years, 11 months ago
These are the people who didn’t read the disclaimer before the game and couldn’t figure out how to proceed
pierogero
4 years, 11 months ago
ooof, that kinda sucks but i suppose i can see why they do this shit :/ doesnt make it any less awful, though.
Jawbreaker89
4 years, 11 months ago
That's being discriminatory for somethings that not illegal, and is none of they're business when has nothing to do with Patreon. People like that will be the down fall of creative freedom for the dumbest shit imaginable.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
Jawbreaker89
4 years, 11 months ago
lol Dude the FBI is NOT gonna go out their way to chase down every little drawing of a fake character below 18 or 13 let alone some damn cartoon rabbit.
TanukiArts
4 years, 11 months ago
That doesn't even matter because that law only applies to HUMAN characters.  If that were not the case, Inkbunny as a whole couldn't exist today.
Jawbreaker89
4 years, 11 months ago
There are plenty of sites that have human characters below legal. Big example as of late is Lisa Simpson, but once again the police want real human kids or characters based on real kids more than anything. I'm pretty sure their is a risk of violating creative rights by picking a fight with every artist who doesnt age up their characters.
xephion
4 years, 11 months ago
actually that law applies to all porn BUT the obscenity laws are never care for in court since it goes agaisnt the first amendment. because it bans all porn but people like to go to that specific clause to use an excuse... look its illegal... ok just go back one page and tell me how illegal truly is because if we go for obscenity laws no porn could be sold.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
They wont indeed chase down every single drawing sure, however they WOULD go after a platform hosting a lot of such drawings and that is something i think patreon would like to avoid, as for the applies just to humans scroll up for my answer on that
Jawbreaker89
4 years, 11 months ago
Not 100% true because not every website is in the United States. If Inkbunny was in Japan, it would be subject to the laws of that country. Either way, if X didnt post any content directly to the site, what does it got to do with them?
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
cept that Patreon is a US based company and thus falls under US law so how does what you just said apply here at all?
Demesejha
4 years, 11 months ago
Dude, just accept that you're wrong and move on.
Jawbreaker89
4 years, 11 months ago
I wasnt using Pateon as an example. I was using Inkbunny and if he didnt post none of the content to their site, that means they willingly went out their way to find something to suspend his account over.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
Which is within their right to do so to protect their company? It is within their guidelines that the funds you get can not be used to fund stuff against their guidelines even if that content is not put on their site, so it's still within their rights to suspend the account. Is it bullshit that they need to go this far to protect their company? absolutely, but dont go blame the company for a broken legal system.
xephion
4 years, 11 months ago
Have you actually read the obscenity laws at all, the reason that NO COURT cares about them is that they are old and they literally go against the first amendment if they were not, porn everywhere would be banned because you only reading the part that discord told you or that you found around as an excuse. But if you actually go back and read all of the law you will find out how ridiculous it is. they banned sexual content in general on that obscenity law.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
The law is indeed absolutely broken but it just takes one overzealous lawyer and judge to make it a very dangerous thing that would take years if not decades of court procedures to get through before it gets overthrown, i've read plenty of stories from people within the BDSM community that got in trouble based on those very obscenity laws you say no court cares about
xephion
4 years, 11 months ago
yes but no one should use those laws and yes there is gonna be people who uses them and lose but thats a problem with the entire legal system you are right about that, but whatever. the point here is patreon actually does this to every creator not only porn creators if they see oh you help with this thing that they dont like for example there was this streamer who got banned because she was donating out of her own pocket to people who well the media doesnt like patreon banned her. patreon is garbage
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
As a private company they have the right to do all this though, is it a shitty thing to do, probably, but can you name a single large company that would not pull the same shit? if we start boycotting all companies doing this well then we'd be left with barely anything.
xephion
4 years, 11 months ago
yeah but that itself is a problem because if we just let them do whatever they want what else can they take from you until is enough?
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
Tbh it's a price i'm willing to pay for a comfortable easy life with luxuries and little worries past the minor first world problems
xephion
4 years, 11 months ago
well lets agree to disagree, besides i dont want to make this journal in to a huge discussion ground.
EvilDeath66X
4 years, 11 months ago
This is fucking stupid. omg I think I lost braincells just reading that shit.
8manx2
4 years, 11 months ago
My response: *walks out of the door* *comes back in with a giant bag of dicks* *Clears throat* ...CONSUME THE CONTENTS!!!!!!!!!!!
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
Soo just say you're a creator of a flash game and give some posts.

Its pretty gay so far but hey we still have those cuckservative motherless PTA mothers who are screaming about the children when we all know they're not getting any and want all the "freaks" and pervs locked up in a cave as they jerk off to the thought of snuffing out any degree of freedom
ModestImmorality
4 years, 11 months ago
lol

"We are watching you EVERYWHERE, if we see ANYTHING no matter WHERE,
you will NOT be allowed here!"

Avalon, are you Republican?

If you identify yourself as a masculine presenting transgender lesbian democrat,
they will let you back in.
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
I'm pretty sure its the republicans that made up all the ban porn laws last I checked. Hmm Yep they just tried and failed again in Colorado Florida Alabama and Wyoming  
ModestImmorality
4 years, 11 months ago
Patreon is an openly leftist/democratic/socialist website that has been de-platforming
stuff they don't like for some time now especially to anyone they can't tell is affiliated
properly with the side they are on.

Which is why I told Avalon if he states himself as that, he'd probably be back in. lol
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
XD XD XD Yeah cause liberals who've been called degenerates and sex perverts and gays are All about banning porn but republicans who've posted laws to ban porn are coming to the rescue. Yes you sound SOOOO Sincere XD XD Come on You know no one is buying that bullshit and we all know you don't believe that bullshit you just spouted you're just trying to own the libs XD and it is Way too obvious XD. You're comment was just paste BS conspiracy cuckservatives recycle here XD lord try harder
ModestImmorality
4 years, 11 months ago
O...kay....

Well, it's a fact, people on the right and/or conservative are being banned everywhere and the founders of places like Twitter have already come out and openly admit their strong democrat/socialist leaning and openly admitted to stifling the right/conservatives as well before courts of law.

Liberals are EXACTLY about banning anyone they can who doesn't follow/obey their affiliation. Though they have all the leeway in the world to anyone LGBT and democrat.

If Avalon reveals himself as such, he can become near invincible.
Repstar
4 years, 11 months ago
You seem to be confusing liberals with leftwing, you americans might think the liberals are left but shocker, they are actually rightwing in the rest of the world, just cause they are the most left option you have in the US does not make them leftwing :3

Also to be fair, the right/conservative tend to be well... less open minded and more hateful towards things which thus tends to get them on the bad side of people pretty quickly. Feel free to have any opinion you want to have, but dont go spouting falsehoods, or wait sorry, alternative facts, without evidence to back them up, something the right is VERY fond of doing. Like you cant go and tell me that the way Trump handles things is actually in anyway a productive contribution to further the development of mankind as a species, all it does is create divisions and an us vs them rhetoric which has never been a good basis to start constructive conversations on that actually solves problems.
ARUFUREDO
4 years, 11 months ago
the only good trump can do is not to procreate his line
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
Corporations don't ban you on political precedent that's illegal and another thing done by liberals who set laws preventing that no you're just upset that Cuckservatives have been banned due to "Alternative" facts and that corporations want a squeaky clean environment with no one cussing because they like Ad Revenue from the largest common denominator who don't like smexy winks in their cartoons they think is just for kids.

Again try a little hard than this copy paste bullshit cause I'm damn sure you know if you kept going on you'd be advocating to shut up Ilam ohmar for saying not all muslims caused 9/11 and that her speech is hate speech. Or that cuckservatives should be "allowed" to speak at college campuses when we all know students just protested about being forced to pay or attend their bullshit seminar's. Sorry that it doesn't work out for you in the market place of Idea's you screaming for safe place doesn't mean you're entitled to be popular when no one buys your shit.

Again we all know that you don't actually believe the BS you're spouting since it contradicts itself and we can all hear the echoes of you saying the exact opposite. You're happy to switch your position so long as it owns the libs cause as progressive groups work to prevent this ,cause the squeaky clean disneyfication will come after them pervert liberals and super flamboyant gays after the racists and overt violence is cleaned up, everyone knows you've advocated and have been caught smiling ear to ear when the shoes on the other foot. So please stop being so Basic
ModestImmorality
4 years, 11 months ago
Well, the deeds defy your response but it really is an agree to disagree matter.

I only know the only time you see anything ban-focused reported is when it's yet another right-winger and/or conservative, you never hear about anybody on the left or affiliated with socialism and the like affected by all these soap-scrubbing tactics being used to make sure only leftist thoughts/ideals and supposed "facts" which are more often lies and conspiracies than truths remain.

So long as there are any well-known right-wingers and/or conservative speakers on the internet via sites like Twitter and YouTube and the like, the left cannot control anything and it is hence pushing them into a maddened state of silence and oppress.

Problem is, the more you do that, the more horrible things will happen as people grow to literal extremes for being manipulated. When you take away peoples outlets and free speech because of your feelings, they turn into true terrorists.

And liberals/socialists/leftists WILL be blamed for that.
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
Yes you sound SOOOO Sincere I've never heard of liberals doing X blah all I see is cuckservatives receiving X totally not looking away or making excuses and changing my position just to own the libs yes the card says moops totally liberals who've advocated for free sexual expression for everyone is totally on banning everyone next you'll tell me that letting people out of a cage infringes on your freedom to cage people XD Yes soo Sincere

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMabpBvtXr4

ModestImmorality
4 years, 11 months ago
I... I don't know how to respond to that...

Your comment is literally kind of hard to understand, it all runs together way too rapidly and you come off as ranting more than taking part in a debate here... Your comment has me asking "...what?" more so than being able to even respond appropriately...
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
If you're going to copy paste basic cuckservative hand book guide. Why should I even try? Enjoy the video its great as a PRATT response
Shuuman
4 years, 11 months ago
Tick tock Modest Tick Tock
DarkMacroMaster
4 years, 11 months ago
I can see where you come from on that. If conservatives were made up, primarily of traditional conservatives, as they used to be no more than a decade ago, then you would be right. They'd be all for restricting explicit and liberal content. That's no longer the case though. During Obama's presidency (right around the time the "Tea Party" made it's debut) the base Republicans began to shift from traditional conservatism, to libertarian conservatism. I would know, because I switched over to the Republican side, when I noticed this change happening. Democrats and Republicans seem to exchange the "authoritarian" and "libertarian" approaches roughly once a generation. Currently, I would say, the Democrats hold the authoritarian mantle. Of course, I anticipate that to change again over the course of the next few decades. The majority of mainstream Republicans seem to currently hold the stance "the government needs to stay out of our business"; a stance which, until recently, was the backbone of the Democrat Party.
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
I think you're giving cuckservatives WAY too much credit and have fallen for the ruse of cuckservative propaganda on SJW's.

You sound like Kothorix posting slight reasonable data then goes on to make points that are semi the opposite and say these are exemptions whilst you build up to a video that wholly says the exact opposite and dismantles any slight degree of reason there was. Not saying that is exactly what you're doing but that it sounds similar

No cuckservatives are the same as ever, one look at Donnie Tiny hands and it should be obvious but you're here giving off the false equivalency of the horseshoe theory. That eventually you'll hit one extreme and then the other and they'll be the same but we haven't even come close to the left extreme when everything is pushed so far to the right that captain bonespurs is calling for extensions

Yeah the fact is that there are few and far between on this SJW but its echoed over and over by the cuckservatives soo much all so they can lie and make a false equivalence. As for the government staying out of peoples business thats just BS from cuckservatives they Love big governement they're demand the government gets into people's wombs, They want 80 times a bloated military doing regime change that was already larger than 5 other industrialized countries combined,

Cuckservatives Love Big Government when it helps their position so thats just a BS talking point and what they mean is Big Government to get in Liberals bed sheets and tell them how to fuck and small government to ignore my cuckservative tax fraud. I don't find a single thing about cuckservatives as Sincere when everything they say is meant as a smoke screen to steal power and they'll block a supreme court judge for over a year than say the democrats are doing record obstruction when they don't immediately surrender their positions. For fucks sakes you have a guy on this thread saying gay trump supporters are being silenced I rest my fucking case
DarkMacroMaster
4 years, 11 months ago
I had a feeling you were going to bring up Donald Trump to refute this. I considered addressing this in my first post, and now realize I should have. I do not think that Trump (nor any President) is truly representative of his party. Ask 1000 Republicans why they voted for Trump, and the vast majority (including myself) will tell you that it was a binary vote, moreso against Hillary, than for Trump. Hillary was one of the worst candidates ever, and cheated Sanders out of the nomination. 90% of the other Democrat candidates could have probably beat Trump. It's true that Trump is more of a traditional conservative, but he was selected as a "lesser of two evils" option, rather than being an ideal candidate.
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
I'll agree with you that Hillary was a Poor candidate and that it was more that she Lost rather than captain bonespurs winning. But your main argument oh you can't point to trump or his supporters just sounds like a no true Scotsman.

Are there cuckservatives who don't see trump as part of their republican ideals sure maybe but they still support him attacking democrats in unity with the people they supposedly disagree with while democrats have a civil war between progressives fighting against cuckservative blue dog democrats.

Actually that is all I need for proof that you're giving a false equivalency. There are Blue dog democrats cuckservative democrats that bend the knee to trump while all the other cuckservatives who agree or disagree in the republican party bend the knee and there are no liberal or moderate republicans what so ever and this despite the fact that liberals throughout the country have a higher population than conservatives.

Sooo yeah that there is really all I need to say Cuckservatives really aren't sincere and will pretend to be nice to gays black women or ect so long as its an advantage but their real motives are the same as last year to a couple of weeks ago when they were screaming kill all them gays and hang them N**grs and you women don't get uppity when we shove the ultra sound into blood gash. These are real quotes from real cuckservative and cuckservative leaders. Why should I take you at your word when history shows this example over and over and you persist to keep "Alternative" facts. Yeah again I can't take cuckservatives honestly and I'm pretty sure you don't believe that the majority of cuckservatives have changed their tune either. You can say otherwise but unless you're deluded yeah we both know its not the case
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
Wow MoonGazerLunarium You blocked me right after Talking about Censorship and bring in the Milo Yianopoulos who was not censored even after supporting Neo-Nazi's, in true uncle tom faschion, but just lost funding and Alex Jones who used stochastic terrorism to get people to attack the sandy hook victims with his alternative facts on crisis actors and I should point out left wing groups helped get back on info wars and again not censored but lost their funding. xD XD XD

See just as I said Cuckservatives you don't actually believe in free speech you believe in it only for you and thanks for proving my Point by Censoring me. No you don't look like some wizard that made a mike drop you look like a cuckservative that ran off to his safe place XD LoL I couldn't have Dreamed of anything better to prove my point  XD XD XD What a fucking joke And Now Everyone Can See it and Call you out for it and Say How Sooo Sincere you are on Censorship


Oh and just incase you try to pretend you never Censored me here's a link to prove it
https://gyazo.com/24875e21cfc84c0e878461cee9ddfbc8 No Reply proof you blocked (aka in your words CENSORED) Me
https://gyazo.com/8e2fdcd2ad1a57279c74665a26163b76 No PM and shows I didn't block you XD
You are dumb you are really Dumb We got you're Tshit and your fingerprints You are so Dumb
DarkMacroMaster
4 years, 11 months ago
" there are no liberal or moderate republicans


Actually, all sitting Republicans right now would be considered moderate of left-leaning. Can you not remember a single decade in the past? Not even the Democrats advocated gay marriage back then.
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
I have to ask given the classical example from MoonGazerLunarium calling me a fascist that censors when actual fascist come in for Unite the right and then Blocking/Censoring me Why should I consider Cucservatives as Sincere? I Mean could I have been given any better example?

And then to Hilariously  exclaim "oh you'll change you mind in time you'll say the darn I guess the cuckservatives were right" bs just another cowardly BS tentative position (no real belief)  that grants him the chance to be too Long dead to be proven wrong; as he'll just keep saying it will happen in time lol what is this other than cowardly not wanting to admit he can't argue with facts? Where is my hobbit home, why did obama not take my gun away, why hasn't the gay agenda destoyed society? All things and more that cuckservatives gave as examples that liberals would eventually change their mind and see cuckservatives as right. Please explain to me why I shouldn't believe my own eyes and history of the insincerity of Cuckservatives
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
See My prediction came true XD Lol you just said "You'll always be wrong and { you don't deserve a voice either} since your fine with censoring those who oppose you." I predicted give it time he'll advocate for free speech when its his side giving alternative facts and demanding violence for political opponents but give it time he'll advocate for the exact opposite

What a pathetic coward and hypocrite. Lol and this guy still has me blocked,  Trying to shout me down while I haven't blocked him. I'm pretty sure that me not having to block(Censored) you. Whilst you try vainly not to crumble in your safe place and call me fascist whilst Literal Nazi's march for Unite the Right. Yeah it means I'm winning cause I have this thing called 'Actions' that are consistent with my beliefs unlike you and pretty obvious everyone will be repeating. Oh Yeah you sound Soooo Sincere XD. Keep flip flopping I'm sure you believe you believe in something guess you just haven't figured it out yet since you're just Sooo Sincere in your beliefs you can't help but contradict them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMabpBvtXr4
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
Oh yes I the one who did Not try to Censor you promote censorship and you who Directly Blocked as in Censored me clearly don't promote censorship. And I who have groups that have historically fought against fascism like say the Nazi's am a fascist yet Actual Nazi's who Identify as Fascist that March in your party and Unite the Right clearly must be confused when they vote republican as a majority of Nazi's do. Well better go tell them

Yes you sound Soooo Sincere in your logic  Next you'll tell me the NAZI's were socialist because it was in their name and not a method to pretend they weren't fascist using capitalistic cabals to circumvent income from minorities whilst consolidating political power and calling their opponents fake news in the term as lugenpresse as a measure to censor them as the killed all the socialist and political rivals in the night of long knifes. Yes I'm sure you're Soooo Sincere as you keep screaming at someone you've blocked my that sounds like a very Sincere and totally not hypocritical move like blocking me or saying I don't deserve a voice.

But I'm sure you could give a Soooo much More Sincere explanation on why the exact thing you're doing isn't Censorship by you're standards and isn't hypocritical. Yes not like every letter you type isn't an expression and proof of what I said about you from the beginning. Soooo Sincere
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
Lol I'm still blocked and I think its pretty obvious Whose Won here. Lol You Can't even stay consistent enough to let alone have the decency to say I'm gonna make this my final post and then not let it be your final post. Cuckservatism 101 is Projection followed by hypocrisy.  https://gyazo.com/76053685c408dbab441cf7b3c32a3262  & https://gyazo.com/2f24e63a117cefc767a2096b8c68cced

Clearly you know you've Lost given you're now saying Oh I'm a unblock you XD XD XD. Its pretty sad watching you trying to dig out of a hole you made but you're just going on in circles and you just want it to keep going till you can post a gatcha as if all that would make every thing proven me to be correct on go away. But as far as I'm concerned Since my powers of Prediction rang True you may call me Grand Wise Sage and you shalt hence forth be known as Basic Bitch Baby cuckservative Or B3.

Now unlike you B3 I don't need to continue watching you wail and whine since I've already been proven correct not only by your words but actions and with the pictures I've posted you won't be able to delete you're post and pretend otherwise. Yeah I know it will eat you up inside given that you're not worth more of my time being Basic at a B3 level but know that you will help everyone in proving you're Sooo Sincere. So Long  B3 and Thanks For All The Fish
kat37
4 years, 11 months ago
Couldn't help yourself could you and you made a lie too delicious not to show Yeah well So Long B3 Final Post

Projection Followed by hypocrisy  XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD
Epic B3 smack down Pic(still Censored):   https://gyazo.com/ef2b201787e68c622f9c7758944a6c92  :(still Censored) Epic B3 smack down Pic

 As ever You're Soooo Sincere even in the end XD XD XD *munches popcorn as scene fades to black*
Ionsector
4 years, 11 months ago
Any way to add art to have one hand waving while the other hand is working on your projects?
GarrickT323
4 years, 11 months ago
Aw shit, here we go again. God dammit patreon just let the artist(s) create whatever they want.
angel85
4 years, 11 months ago
They were assured it's only censorship when government does it, so fuck independent artists and people with unpopular opinions huh?
sumeriandragon
4 years, 11 months ago
Wellcome to my life mate, got my patreon suspended 2 times and now Discord is baning cub too, we are doomed mate DOOMED!
Greywin
4 years, 11 months ago
I love the contradiction, first Andy tells you your back within guidelines and your good now. Then, he goes to say  no for no better reason than I don't like what you said. I'm sorry Andy, is my account within guidelines or not?! If it is, I can say I draw pikachu faces on the dick of the U.S. president for all that matters! Who cares if you said you co-authored BSC, it's not proven either way. Also, BSC is on other websites. Are you a moderator of the internet Andy, are you the fucking FCC Andy?! No your fucking not!
DevilishGenesis
4 years, 11 months ago
The dickbaggery continues. If they're not just covering their, or their company's collective, ass, they're being judgmental douchenozzles on a power trip. This feels like a combination, and petty to boot. Whipping out ye olde banhammer should be for flagrant and possibly repeated rule breakers, not for people who go 'okay, okay, I need the income your site provides me access to, so I'll make the adjustments you asked for'.
apdamien
4 years, 11 months ago
We still have (thank goodness) inkbunny. I guess you could also post on lolicit. The people there seem less interested in furry content, but it's not against their rules either.

Do you have _anything_ you've drawn that doesn't show Cream, Amy, etc in a sexual situation? If so, you can put that up on their (stupid) site and beyond that tell people to go see your inkbunny account. Maybe not even a link, just "look me up on inkbunny.net".

As far as I can see, you aren't using Patreon to restrict access to your work. (As I do: I post my stories 1 month earlier on Patreon than on my furry and other human-oriented sites). Basically, Patreon seems to be a way for you to collect tips.So you can have your account there, continue to post your good stuff here, and those of us who like it enough will pay you something every month through Patreon.

Yes? Or am I misunderstanding something?

There's also ko-fi.com, another site for collecting tips. But they also ban adult content on their site. (But again, you can collect tips and have your NSFW stuff elsewhere.) Unfortunately, it looks like if you have a free account the minimum "tip" (cup of virtual coffee) is $3, which might keep some of your supporters away. To get it down to $1, you would have to pay them something, I think it's $6/year.

Besides, Patreon provides a mechanism for automatically collecting your tips monthly, whereas Ko-fi will only collect tips when people go there and specifically tip you. So, economically, Patreon seems like a better deal.

Sigh. Life isn't easy for those of us who create sexually explicit content.
zyfer
4 years, 11 months ago
Just tell them to fuck off and die. Patreon is a worthless leftist company supporting pro censorship.
Shuuman
4 years, 11 months ago
My god what have I just witnessed
Netreek
4 years, 11 months ago
Each company has their right to do their own guidelines. Like Sofurry and furaffinity don't allow cubart. SL forbids loli and shota aso. In some countries, that you shouldn't forget, even the written content of loli and shota (not just drawn or photos) is against the law. So they just state that their company doesn't want to help people raise funds who do loli, shota, cub, aso. It is in their rights. Just like I don't need to serve someone, because I don't like this persons nose. Discrimination against  gender, religion or preferences is forbidden. They just state the fact: "We don't like loli, shota, cub stuff. Please refrain from doing that on our website." After all human content is forbidden here on IB aswell. Patreon might be the first of fundraising in that kind, but as we see, more companies are evolving from that. Instead Kickstarter people can use indiegogo. (dragonslair the movie started as kickstarter but went to indiegogo) Instead patreon you have also someone else to go to. And there are a bunch of people who allready did leave patreon for that matter and went somewhere else.
obscenity
4 years, 11 months ago
SoFurry does, not sure if they SAY they don't, but its there, every now and then I go back to look at old pictures and stories I remember seeing and reading.

Best stuff is of Roni and some other.... paw related, stuff o3o
Netreek
4 years, 11 months ago
new sofurry tos.  cub being naughty is not allowed anymore over there.
gintsu
4 years, 11 months ago
Well that sucks it really does seem like this guy is out to get you even if you are following the guidelines for the site now he is questioning the benefit of removing the suspension on  the account due to offsite content. I will leave it at that in order to avoid adding to the madness that has become this posts comment section.I do hope this gets resolved and while its not ideal perhaps it would be better to post the content that they are upset about offsite and maybe use patreon for the other art you create. Its best to think about your own stress levels even if it means letting them win.
Wakka
4 years, 11 months ago
Okay that is the most stupidest thing iv ever read. Your right that's retarded.
DrakeValos
4 years, 11 months ago
Wow, Patreon's acting just like most news media.  Better pull out the black censor bars quickl-  oh.  They don;t care.
Hospoguy76
4 years, 11 months ago
Most countries are going down this line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in...
DiogenesShandor
4 years, 11 months ago
This kind of thing is why I donate money to the Comicbook Legal Defense Fund
strikecentral
4 years, 11 months ago
So basically Australia thinks their citizen are so stupid that they can't tell the difference between fiction and reality.
Well, with some of the other things I've heard are happening there, they just might be right in that assumption.
PaperMercenary
4 years, 11 months ago
This totally looks like the one monitoring your account has a vendetta against you.
yufyuf
4 years, 11 months ago
1st You can be babysitting any age, not restricted to minors.

2nd Their Guidelines are stupid
" We don't allow pornographic material or sexual services on Patreon, which we define as "real people engaging in sexual acts such as masturbation or sexual intercourse on camera."

" Offensive and graphic creations:

We understand that artists sometimes have to push boundaries to create thought provoking art so we don't review offensive and graphic creations with strict black and white guidelines, instead we review them in the context of the whole creator page.

However, we have zero tolerance when it comes to the glorification of sexual violence which includes bestiality, rape, and child exploitation (i.e., sexualized depiction of minors). This is true for illustrated, animated, or any other type of creations. Patreon reserves the right to review and remove accounts that may violate this guideline.

We also do not allow other fringe sexual fetish creations, such as incest, necrophilia, or fetish creations that is hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex.

We understand that some topics on this list such as incest or rape are a little bit more complicated because these situations are, unfortunately, part of real life. As a result, when reviewing these types of creations, the Trust and Safety team will take into consideration context including personal, historical or educational narrative. For example, survivor stories or fiction such as Game of Thrones or Lolita are allowed on Patreon.
obscenity
4 years, 11 months ago
Lot of comments here, so obviously i cant read them all to check similar opinions.

But the representative said "given that there are children involved", knock them down a peg, by telling the truth, there are NO children involved, merely the fictional, non-human characters, of the Sonic franchise.

If you want you can throw in some "2019 guilt" some people on the internet use, haha, you know "did you just assume my content" lawl.

It IS a very wild and false accusation after all, how can they claim to know whats in the game? Have they played it?

Keep cool, if you know how, play the legal game, they'll shit their pants.
DiogenesShandor
4 years, 11 months ago
And that what's more they've been around for like 30 years
obscenity
4 years, 11 months ago
oh and remember to use CLEAN thumbnails and use attachments for the full NSFW file, stops them complaining.
obscenity
4 years, 11 months ago
Here's a template for you if you like...

"
Hi Andy from Patreon,

I observe the misunderstanding you seem to have made,
you should be aware Cream is a fictional character by Sega AM8, one of the many characters of the planet Mobius,
of which my works feature.

All Sonic series characters are featured in my works regardless of canonical age,
none of the characters featured in my works are real or human or even human-like,
instead representative of rabbits, echidnas, of course hedgehogs, and the like.

If its the number factor thats a concern, cream would be 27 today, and 28 next month! *birthday toots*

Hopefully this has explained everything and my works can be supported on your platform, looking forward to your buisness.

-Aval0nX


See? It's easy to speak legalese :3
obscenity
4 years, 11 months ago
math derp, shes actually 33 turning 34
strikecentral
4 years, 11 months ago
Thanks, now I feel even older than I already am!
Dave2
4 years, 11 months ago
Such an asshole (them, not you! =D)
SonasoAsoka
4 years, 11 months ago
wow thats a load of bullshit -.w.- i hope you get beyond this hun
Esitaro3670
4 years, 11 months ago
Damn, sorry to hear about it man
DrHojo123
4 years, 11 months ago
Sounds to me he just want's free art.
strikecentral
4 years, 11 months ago
Sounds like somebody over there has it in for you and doesn't like your work, even if you're not doing anything against their TOS directly. I'd almost say this sounds like someone doesn't like you personally. Maybe remove the mention of BSC? I don't know. I don't think they want your money anymore.
lCie
4 years, 11 months ago
He wants examples of what you'll be posting, huh? Here's an idea, send him the largest resolution, blank, black image you can make so its file size is massive. Then zip it so there's no preview and the file size can still be sent. Repeat for the 3-5 examples. You could troll the guy, give him the middle finger, AND tell him exactly what you'll be posting at the same time.
ARUFUREDO
4 years, 11 months ago
please please do this one just for the laughs
Corney
4 years, 11 months ago
Aval0nX why not just emptify your patreon and just use it for funding? It's not a kickstarter or igg, if people wanna support you they know your art and will support you and you can post your reward stuff somewhere else? Just throwing my two cents.

And yeah IMO fake characters don't count as real so I don't think fakes should be illegal in nature.
Horsie
4 years, 11 months ago
Switch to SubscribeStar, restrictions are a lot less severe.
Runbo
4 years, 11 months ago
Sorry Avalon but I'm going to defend them here.

Maybe they unjustly softban/locked your account in the first place but content by reference is a thing.
Imagine a person seeing "Babysitting Cream game" and then looking it up.
To be honest, they are giving you way more leeway than most would on the subject.
They have an image to uphold but it sounds like they want to have your back.
Their hands are tied but they lubed up.

Maybe don't be so harsh on these guys. They're not the typical pissy toffs.
Trollzor123404
4 years, 11 months ago
Use a different donation box fuck patreon
apdamien
4 years, 10 months ago
Someone on another forum also ran into Patreon's rules  -- he drew noncon victims. One person suggested https://www.subscribestar.com/

I looked at their terms of service, and you might be able to use them. I also like Corney's suggestion: post your material somewhere else and only use Patreon to solicit money. Sort of a "please support me here. You can find my artwork on inkbunny." thing. Your description of what you are creating will have to be kind of vanilla (no pun intended).

Or if "look on inkbunny" is too specific for Patreon, you could tell new subscribers where to look via private message.
Cyb3rm4n
4 years, 10 months ago
Retard Alert!
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