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Bahlam

White Americans disturb me

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I had Easter dinner with my mother at a Chinese buffet.  It's a very nice place with lots of seafood.  

The thing that bothered me was one of the patrons.  An elderly man and his wife came in.  He was wearing a black 'scrambled eggs' NRA* ball cap.  He was also carrying a compact handgun in a 'tactical' mount.  Looking at the rig I know the most likely store where he got it.  I buy hiking gear and clothes there sometimes.  He was one of those people who is always looking for an argument.  I saw him intentionally put his hand on the steam table then loudly complain to the proprietor that he'd been burned.  What an asshat.  I wasn't really listening to what he was saying but he was complaining constantly.  I think he was making racist statements too but I'm not sure.  He definitely said something about Chinese something.  

When he came out of the mens room a hispanic man was startled and choked when he noticed the guy was openly carrying a handgun.  I don't see this kind of thing every day but see it much too often.  I assume the guy has a New York carry permit.  Almost any idiot can get one.  Thankfully we don't have an ALEC stand-your-ground law or this idiot might have legally murdered some innocent boy in a hoodie already.  At least the local police wouldn't have assisted him the way they might have elsewhere.  This isn't Sanford, Florida.  

I'm white (actually part Shoshone but it doesn't show).  I have guns.  I used to shoot competitively and hunt.  I haven't done either in years due to losing interest in both.  One thing I've never done is carry a gun into a buffet restaurant or wanted to.  I've never gone into anywhere looking for an argument either.  And for some reason I'm not intimidated by non-white people the way so many crazy white people seem to be.  

As an American this guy's behavior outrages me to an extreme degree.  So does the attitude that lets these morons walk the streets with guns.  So do the laws and the extremist lobbying groups that keep those laws on the books and more rational laws off the books.  He's the last person who should be carrying a handgun and using it as a threat to bully people.  Sometimes I think my fellow Americans are completely insane.  I also realize it's not the majority that's crazy.  It's the real crazy people who use racist paranoia to promote their own political influence and keep things crazy.  They're the ones who put that gun in his hands.  They've put the guns into the hands of crazy people who shoot innocent people all over the country.  

A large group of black men and one asian man from a local drug and alcohol rehab center came into the restaurant.  I see these guys and the staff people around town and my mother, a retired nurse, works with them.  My neighbor does maintenance on the center's vans.  The crazy old man looked like he was about to go bonkers watching these guys walk in.  We got the hell out of there.  I haven't seen any news stories about a mass shooting at the buffet but it wouldn't have surprised me one bit.  Welcome to twenty-first century America.  

*National Rifle Association, a right-wing lobbying group that's supposed to promote sport shooting but instead fights any and all restrictions on gun ownership and public carry.  I've never been an NRA member but used to be a member of the NYSRPA back when they actually promoted the sport instead of being an NRA clone.  

American Legislative Exchange Council, an Ayn-Randian thinktank that writes anti-regulation laws for American legislators.
Viewed: 227 times
Added: 6 years, 7 months ago
 
merlynn
6 years, 7 months ago
Yes,why can't more people be as tolerant as you are.
fluffdance
6 years, 7 months ago
Coming from Southern California, I have a -very- different mentality about this situation.  If someone is showing possession of a firearm, that's cause enough for alarm, legal or not.  If that person then starts getting loud, obnoxious, or threatening in ANY way, I immediately neutralize him.  Angry person with weapon = potential fatality.  Neutralize angry person immediately, ask questions later.  I'm rather Israeli about bullshit like that.  A majority of the time, Good Samaritan laws protect such acts, and if not, the time served is minimal, the conviction is non-felony, and the potential for lives saved far outweighs either of those downsides.

Next time, do something rather than walk away.  This country (and indeed, the world) is as bad as it is because of passivity and complacency (Case in point:  FA).  Even calling the cops, I'm willing to bet the guy would have ended up being arrested.  Legal or not, if someone is carrying a firearm in a place where a firearm doesn't make immediate sense to be carried, and said person is acting aggressive or showing disgust for those around him, that's generally reason enough for -any- cop to detain and arrest under suspicion of premeditated or potential crime.  :-\
KevinSnowpaw
6 years, 7 months ago
and when the cranky old fuck goes ape shit on you and blows your head off then what? You do not engage a man carrying a firearm unless your willing to kill him if need be and are appropriately armed. This is the problem with gun carry laws. It's one thing to own a gun for self defense and home defense it's another to were it on your hip to a Chinese resterunt like some kinda modern day cowboy. What an ass hole.

But yeah case in point, I see were your coming from but thats terrible advice. What was he supposed to neutralize him with a chair? LMFAO We are mortal flesh and blood and we bleed and die pretty easy. Man with a Gun making a scean? Call police and keep head down.
fluffdance
6 years, 7 months ago
You seem to not understand the concept of neutralizing someone.
AzureTheGamerKobold
6 years, 7 months ago
Not everyone is willing to hurt another, for any reason at all. I personally am non-violent lets forget the fact i'm a overweight nerd =P even though i know some martial arts i'm not about to engauge someone with a gun for any reason at all. Secondly to hurt anyone should immediatly be frowned on, i believe personally that violence should be a last resort for any reason... That said i'd have called the police in this situation JUST because guy has an NRA hat on, and such doesn't mean he has a license, secondly if he's being openly hostile permit or not, the cops can make guy leave the establishment or even take his firearm. The permit lets you carry it, but if your showing signs of " erratic " behavior that usually grounds for investigation.

On another note in this same situation i'd have got my check, paid and left... and told the manager/owner why before hand. I'm a survivalist i'm much more concerned with living to see another day then trying to be an alpha male... seriously... whole carry guns in public and even concealed shouldn't be legal for ANYONE but cops and military personnel... if your not hunting, you have no right to carry a weapon of any kind into public setting.
fluffdance
6 years, 7 months ago
If you allow someone to come to harm by doing nothing, when you had the chance to prevent it, then how is that -not- causing harm?
ToddRiverden
6 years, 7 months ago
Not everyone is able to 'do something'. Not everyone can charm there way out of a fight or have the ability to use force to prevent something like this.

Too many people get there heads blown off or severely hurt because they did something. If your not afraid of being shot in the head, Then by all means, Please feel free to do something if and when the time comes. If you have the ability to neutralize then wonderful but don't tell people it's what THEY should do. No everyone is as thrilled to risk there lives because someone is doing something like this.

That's the big problem with what you say. You seem to think everyone should handle it the way you would. But most people do not have training of natural gifts to do this. So insteed of telling people that basicly, it's there fault for not doing something and walking away with there lives intact, maybe you should just say what you would do and be done with it. Don't blame the smart people who don't want to risk getting killed, blame the a-hole who walked into a place with a gun showing.

By the way, I thought the idea of concealed carry was that it was, you know, hidden and not out in the open. Didn't think that was even legal to do, permit or not.

Todd.
AzureTheGamerKobold
6 years, 7 months ago
rriiiiggght so guy chose not to get shot, is actually at fault and not the guy with the gun? no sorry but guy shoots weapon is one doing harm, if i choose to leave and or not take direct action i'm not the one causing harm. That is like blaming the victem of rape for not being strong enough to fight back.

not everyone has ability to harm another, are things called " ethics " and " principles " and i will not become the monster i seek to destroy and is many times what happens. From a psychological stand point the common instinct is fight or flight, and 9/10 people in this situation will choose to flight over fight. In addition the few do choose to fight TYPICALLY end up shot...

My  cousin was faced with a bad situation and he chose to fight, and guy only had a knife. He's now a corpse in the ground do to his chivalry so no sorry... this kind of mentality gets people killed end of story.
BuckBunny
6 years, 7 months ago
I believe he means by neutralizing is to call the police.  The only other way is to calm the guy down.  That is not something you should do by yourself with a guy openly carrying a gun.  Besides, the manager should have called the police as soon as the guy showed any form of aggression.  Carrying a gun and having an attitude is just cause to have the police remove him from the restaurant.

Another thing that can be done is tell the restaurant manager that you will not come back when they are allowing someone to enter their place of business carrying a gun.  The restaurant can post a "no firearm" sign and the gun totting people will not have any place to go.

I believe a person should have the right to own a gun.  But I also believe a person has the right not to be intimidated by another person carrying a gun.  That is what happen here.  
Flexible
6 years, 7 months ago
" fluffdance wrote:
Next time, do something rather than walk away.  This country (and indeed, the world) is as bad as it is because of passivity and complacency (Case in point:  FA).  Even calling the cops, I'm willing to bet the guy would have ended up being arrested.  Legal or not, if someone is carrying a firearm in a place where a firearm doesn't make immediate sense to be carried, and said person is acting aggressive or showing disgust for those around him, that's generally reason enough for -any- cop to detain and arrest under suspicion of premeditated or potential crime.  :-\
This depends on their classification, their laws, and whether or not they're licensed to carry.

Sidenote: Attempting to neutralize someone who may not have been in the mood to shoot someone, might put them in the mood to shoot someone. The best bet is to call the police if something is suspicious, but if someone is walking around with a gun in broad daylight, odds are they're allowed to be.

You do NOT approach anyone with a gun in any manner if you don't feel they're safe to be around, that's just common sense. Especially if you're with your mother, and in a restaurant full of people. I don't know what you would do, or why you'd do it, but I'd just leave and call the cops. Because doing anything confrontational, or attempting to 'neutralize' may lead to aggression, and then dead people. The police are there to deal with this, not citizen. Regardless of the law.
KevinSnowpaw
6 years, 7 months ago
thank you
Bahlam
6 years, 7 months ago
DItto.
Bahlam
6 years, 7 months ago
I know the local police.  I don't they'd see it quite that way.  He looked pissy about just about everything but they aren't going to take anyone into custody unless they have good reason.  If they did stop and check him it could create a worse situation and they probably know the guy already.  If I really believed he was about to start a real fight or open fire I'd at least have called the police.  So would the owners of the restaurant.  I think he knew the line he couldn't step over and just wanted to freak out the non-white people there, which he certainly did.  
movingon
6 years, 7 months ago
I agree with you on this one.
twilightstormshi
6 years, 7 months ago
guns don't kill people. idiots and geniuses do.
Bahlam
6 years, 7 months ago
Mad geniuses!  Bwahahahahaha!
dmfalk
6 years, 7 months ago
Me, I kill people with squirrels. :)

*smiles innocently at the nutty notion*

d.m.f.
twilightstormshi
6 years, 7 months ago
true! because i am a genius, and i don't kill people. so i must not be mad. that's how that works =3
Flexible
6 years, 7 months ago
Because stating that "White Americans scare you." is totally not racist or stereotypical at all, right? x3 Some people are just weird. Stating things like that in a generalized fashion, regardless of who you are, is just a negative thing to do silly. My suggestion is to avoid locations that allow weapons inside their establishments. I would have left the moment he came in.
MarauderOctobot
6 years, 7 months ago
I feel the same way you do, Sunny.
CookieFritz
6 years, 7 months ago
Well I'm glad I live in Britain, where hardly anyone has a gun at all :I Guns terrify me.
Bahlam
6 years, 7 months ago
I think they're stupidly restrictive myself.  You can't really eliminate firearms from a country though Japan did a good job once.  At least the shooting competitions at the Olympics will be at the Royal Artillery Barracks, not in France or something stupid like that.  
cooncub
6 years, 7 months ago
I'm white and don't own a gun, with my hands being so crippled up I don't think I can shoot a gun let along kill someone.. In ohio they even teach kids about hunting and stuff early. I think its ashame that at times here kids get ahold of guns and shoot other kids not knowing its real or here kids get one and go off at school and shoot others. As stated guns don't kill people do.
Launny
6 years, 7 months ago
Where I live, in Brazil,  you can find normally somebody with a gun... even children
Bahlam
6 years, 7 months ago
I didn't know that.  Now Brazil seems a little scary.  That said, when I was a cub lots of young boys used to go out in the woods with .22 rifles.  I don't see that anymore.  
CXM420
6 years, 7 months ago
Yep, racism can usually get into the heads of some American filled with too much damn pride.

As someone in a mixed blood country (Philippines), I get my share of positive and negative comments sometimes.
Bahlam
6 years, 7 months ago
Things can get pretty crazy here and very often the media either drives or cooperates with it.  Especially Fox News.  Here's a lovely story where they refer to Neo-Nazis as a 'civil rights group'.  The National Socialist Movement is a white supremacist Neo-Nazi group.  They are supposedly patrolling Sanford, Florida to protect white people.  I've heard no one in the area has actually seen them so it may just be a publicity stunt.  When I was a teenager there was a local National Socialist group that did similar things.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&a...
CXM420
6 years, 7 months ago
Jeez... Racist scum + permit to carry firearms + media intervention = DECEPTION OF THE PRESS

In the Philippines, there's a so-called "black market" that you can pay to smuggle a weapon, with free delivery as long as you pay the right price. Fraternities usually benefit from it, although they had pretty much acquired enough knowledge of improvised guns. The worst part is how well they can hide it from public view. One example is the High School I worked with once for a Reading Remediation Program, a few years ago a student with delinquency background got fed up with a teacher, AND SHOT HIM RIGHT ON THE SPOT...

*shudders* The reason why I prefer knives when the need for self-defense arises.
Kooshmeister
6 years, 7 months ago
I'm white also and own an Airsoft P38 but no actual gun. I have been looking into getting one for home protection though. I'm actually very pro-gun control, and yet I want to own one for my protection. However, I do not intend on taking it with me everywhere I go and certainly not fucking cowboy style in a hip holster. That's just inviting disaster.
Bahlam
6 years, 7 months ago
I've lived in some pretty high crime areas and never had to use a gun for home protection.  Thankfully I don't any more but we do have a neighborhood watch that started after some serious crime, including two homicides, in the town.  I do keep several firearms on hand at home.  I wouldn't highly recommend it.  If you don't know what you're doing you can easily injure yourself or other people.  
Kooshmeister
6 years, 7 months ago
I treat my Airsoft as if it is a real gun. In particular I'm mindful of the safety catch and also I don't have my finger on the trigger itself, but the trigger guard, when I'm not firing it. It may be a toy gun but it looks and feels real (it's very heavy) and so I don't fuck around with it. Not because I actually imagine it to be real but more because I just think it's good practice to treat it like it's real so if I ever do handle a real gun, I'll handle it properly. In fact, I'm unsure I actually need an actual gun since this thing looks real enough that it could be used to make a burglar back down, I imagine. If I owned a real gun, after all, I doubt I'd actually fire it; I'd only use it to intimidate an intruder. Guns, after all, have tremendous psychological effect.
RobbyTiger
6 years, 7 months ago
I have a different view on this. I'm an avid gun owner and while I believe that the man in this situation was wrong you can't blame it on the gun. The gun is just an object and by itself can not cause harm its the individual who handles the gun that causes it to be dangerous. Now as for the white American comment you can't take a couple bad apples and say we all are bad
Bahlam
6 years, 7 months ago
I'm certainly not blaming gun owners.  I'm one and like to think I'm responsible about it.  It's the irresponsible people who worry me.  Them and the lobbying groups who fight every restriction on ownership and magazine capacity and everything else.  
EroKord
6 years, 7 months ago
I'd like to preface this by saying as a non-conservative Canadian I'm far "left" of both the republicans and the democrats politically.

That said, gun control is the most deluded concept ever, and it only works in make believe fairytale worlds. Criminals obviously don't care about the law as they are breaking it. For that reason trying to restrict "weapons" only hurts those who DO care about the law. If more people openly carried guns, how many people would commit crimes where anyone could see them? How many people would commit crimes knowing if their mark is faster they would wind up dead? The idea of being frightened of some obnoxious white guy because he open carries is ridiculous, and pandering the the media scare over "scary white guys who will shoot any minority at the drop of a hat" despite the big media outcry being both half truths, and not about a white guy, no matter how much they photoshop filter his image to make him look more white Is equally ridiculous, and is another tool in the fight to disarm everyone but the government sponsored killers.

Gun control is the one of the ONLY time I agree with conservatives, because the right to defend yourself and loved ones trumps any right of some punk to threaten me, or my friends and family. I'm sympathetic to the plight of most criminals, because they've usually been put into that situation because of our messed up society, but that sympathy ends when I'm staring down a pack of young adults who want my money for booze or cigs, and are willing to beat or kill me to get it.

But i dunno, maybe Americans need gun control, because Canadians have more guns per capita and we do much better in terms of gun crime. You guys just need to learn to handle it better. Maybe stop trying to starve the poor to death with right wing economics and they'll stop killing you for your money/goods.
MasterTomcat
6 years, 7 months ago
If the chinese proprietor had been carrying a gun too, this man wouldn't have been so cocky
Bahlam
6 years, 7 months ago
It's possible the husband might.  He generally stays out of sight in the back watching the security cameras.  I don't think his wife would know what to do with a gun.  She does know how to handle abusive people.  I've encountered several racist people causing trouble there.  
cheetahjab
6 years, 7 months ago
As a white gun carrying American, I take great disrespect that you'd lump me in with some old back woods asshat like this guy.. But then again just like the rest of the world, we must lump all people under a single stigma.. thanks for continuing the same trend.
Bahlam
6 years, 7 months ago
Naah.  Not everyone with a gun is a nut but an awful lots of nuts carry guns.  
yiharbin
6 years, 7 months ago
god.... some people
MrSOCKS
6 years, 7 months ago
Yeah. Old white America has been scared shitless with some twenty years of constant fear-mongering by our media and conservative religion. Obama's election to the presidency was especially frightening for them. And thanks to endless, esp. intense professional rabble-rousing by folks like Fox News, lots of these old cottontops have adopted a very belligerent attitude. Even my own old white parents can contract an acute case of the Red Ass at times, the main symptom being a loud belching of the right-wing talking point du-jour.
The fear is palpable, as is the sense of helplessness and powerlessness. This gets converted into sometimes-bizarre outward aggression, the kinds Our Host demonstrates.
skunkpapers
6 years, 7 months ago
Welcome to America, where you have the right - no - obligation to ornery and crazy...
Lightpaw
6 years, 7 months ago
Wait, what did this guy do that made you say that white Americans disturb you, specifically?  He had a gun, but that's not the issue.  He was carrying it in public, but that is well within his rights.  He bitched about burning himself on the steam tray (You say 'intentionally,' but how in the world did you read this guys mind?) and he said the word 'Chinese', both of which are absolutely circumstantial allegations.  He also looked at some people who came in, and you saw he was 'about to go bonkers'.  Why do you say that?  From what you've written I think he's probably an asshole and I'd hate to be his friend, but in writing all of this out have you thought maybe you are seeing what you want to see?  Or perhaps what contemporary, prevailing social trends demand that you see?
SfHoffman5617
6 years, 7 months ago
I like (love) the second amendment, because I think its fun just to go out to a range and shoot targets, but for a permit to carry a gun in public , there should really tough regulation so idiots like that guy can't carry a gun like some sort of social statement. There should be enough regulations and restrictions so that you can protect yourself when you're in a life threatening situation, but not carry around a gun like its a accessory or something. But the problem is, I have no idea how that can be regulated... it's a really tough issue in America right now.
Shokuji
6 years, 7 months ago
Thank you for sharing. =) Also some of these comments were quite interesting too. =O
Bahlam
6 years, 7 months ago
The comments were very interesting but not as polarizing as I'd expect elsewhere.  Guns and racism aren't subjects it's easy to talk about rationally in the US.  From the responses I get the impression the crowd here is more rational, and definitely more emotionally open, than I'd see in a general online population.  Yay, furries and cub lovers?  Maybe.  ;-)

I thought about posting another journal about a bizarre neglectful parent and children I encountered in the same buffet.  The problem is they're way too weird to be believable characters in fiction and explaining the situation would be complicated.  The boy was toothless at four years old.  *shudder*

The buffet is the nearest decent restaurant to the Western part of the county which is so poor there isn't even a McDonalds so lots of very poor people show up there after they've scammed someone for money or however they got it.  There was another freak months ago who makes a living cleaning out foreclosed homes for Citibank.  He was talking loudly on his cell phone about how he was going to photoshop a picture of a former employer (who I know) into a toilet and post it on the internet to 'get back' at him.  If he did post it I can't find it.  

It's still a very nice place.  It gets an 88% on Urban Spoon.  
Shokuji
6 years, 7 months ago
I've had a few interesting (highly controversial) topics that I thought was going to blow up, but oddly didn't. Although it was a friends-only post so I had some control over who could see it, though I must admit some of the replies were still a little surprising. I enjoy getting feedback from others, to see how their thoughts contrast with mine, also to 'rattle my cage' to make sure what I believe stands on a solid foundation or not. It's risky business though, if you take it too far you're losing friends and/or respect from others. I generally remind people that I enjoy playing "devil's advocate" but even then people get fairly emotional at times. =o

The toothless boy reminds me of a video I saw on youtube of a 2 year old already qualifying as obese (not overweight, but actually obese). >_<; I don't quite understand why people aren't more gung-ho for mandatory child raising classes for new parents. Driving classes/tests are required before you can drive, so why not the same standard applied to child rearing? o.o; Perhaps that's just too 'socialist' or 'some-other-scary-word-used-in-the-wrong-way' for some? I don't know. XD
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