Inkbunny

It isn't about heavy moderation as much as it is about having clear, set standards which must be protected to be sustainable. When standards slip or are not expected to be enforced, then you get chaos. Main thing that kills projects is when principles are sacrificed for convenience or when they are unevenly applied.

Danjen

5 years, 5 months ago

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I mean, what's wrong with Inkbunny?
It pretty much has the most solid mix of features and stuff you can ask from a furry site. It even has the cub stigma to keep most troublemakers away

RoareyRaccoon

5 years, 5 months ago

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Inkbunny is an art website, it's not a place for talking to people in active conversations. I don't think there's anything wrong with inkbunny as a site tho.

Danjen

5 years, 5 months ago

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Any art site is also a community space. You can't have one without the other.
And while IB lacks a forum, there are still places you can discuss things at length

For example, if it were so bad at having conversations, then what was the point of this journal?

smblion

5 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 5 years, 5 months ago by Owner

people visit art sites just for art. Look at FA for example, most of it's users probably don't even know that it has a forum.

A proper forum site is much better for that purpose, because it offers the kind of specialized tools that a forum really demands. phpBB comes to mind, but there are other good ones.

Danjen

5 years, 5 months ago

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@ smblion

Before IMVU took over, FA's forum wasn't even managed by FA, it was third party.

That reminds me, where did that $10,000 server donation end up disappearing to when Neer tried to sell thr half of the site that wasnt his?

RoareyRaccoon

5 years, 5 months ago

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I didn't say it wasn't a community space. I'm talking about creating something myself where people have conversations and there are firm guiding principles at the heart of it. I don't want to commandeer and change what already exists, but rather have a specific space with a specific goal. Inkbunny doesn't have what I'm looking for, you can get away with being a demonising bitch, lying about people here. If you're a leftist fruitloop anyway. And there's the hypersexual side of the fandom here in droves. I'm happy to host my art here and say the website is excellent for that function, but the inkbunny community isn't what I'd be aiming for, at all. Same deal with FA.

smblion

5 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 5 years, 5 months ago by Owner

I would love a forum website with policies similar to Inkbunny. Forums are fantastic and underappreciated by todays instant-gratification culture.. but I grew up on dial up BBSes where forum conversations were king and I think that was a much better environment for real discussions because it encouraged people to take their time and think about responses.

If you decide to go that route I'd be willing to help, I'd even go so far as to provide a low-cost server to start out with, because it's something I'd like to see happen.

Sleepyly

5 years, 5 months ago

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I always like the porn but i get how some people feel alienated by it but i think most people including me will miss it.

Does libertarianism/voluntarism count as extremism? I think its only extreme if you only consider its proposal of government extinction, other than that it has nothing you should worry about. It doesnt have a opressor/opressed logic to it neither advocates for agression on any level.

The part of the community i really hate is both the crybullies and the overall high school/kindergarten atmosphere. I think we all know why the crybullies are bad but the constant kindergarten /highschool vibe kinda sucks a lot too, i wanna grow out of this hugbox world, im sensitive but i wanna be better, not that i will ever stop loving cute critters and their butts.

RoareyRaccoon

5 years, 5 months ago

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@ Sleepyly

If someone is advocating the removal of government, they're talking about wiping out centuries of evolution of the concept to set humanity back to pre-government societies. When people advocate ideas like this they are so fundamental that they dominate conversation. Nobody can talk about improving the societies we have in realistic or constructive ways while there are people who want to flip the table and change everything outright. That's the main reason I don't want extremism, because nobody can talk about anything else. There are places for total free speech and to hash out this stuff, I don't want to create something new that caters to it.

IGSA101

5 years, 5 months ago

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@ Sleepyly

Most libertarians are more for regulation of government than abolishing it, but every side has it's extremes.

Sleepyly

5 years, 5 months ago

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@ IGSA101

I guess you are talking about the libertarian party?
If you call for more regulation you are not even a classic liberal my dude, much less a libertarian.
Libertarianism requires supporting the end of the govt by definition

IGSA101

5 years, 5 months ago

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@ Sleepyly

It emphasizes political freedom, and libertarians are wary of government power, but the ideology is split on the methods, there are anarchistic libertarians, as well as reformist ones. When talking about ideologies you should focus on how they are put into practice, not simply the end goals, especially when the group doesn't even agree on them. I have no doubt that communism is making it's resurgence because of focusing too much on the ideals and not the reality of it, that being that every single communist society has failed or is in the process of failing. Also I'm not a libertarian, I'm as center as is possible to get.

hakuhase

5 years, 5 months ago

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It would be great to have such a place, a safe haven to talk about random stuff with other furries.
Maybe a forum? Imageboard/subreddit? Some sort of chat? I have no idea what to suggest, but I fully support the concept as it seems most sites are either full of political slacktivists or yiff-hungry youngsters, which is understandable but annoying when you're trying to have a nice conversation or just trying to relax a bit in a world so complicated like the one we are living in.
Anyways, I know I'm just a random no-one but count me in for that. :P

lazor

5 years, 5 months ago

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No politics and no religion. It just brings out the worst in people.

VoE

5 years, 5 months ago

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These were once the things that people didn't have to go out of their way to find. They're things most decent folk want, and they definitely resonate with me.

Ahura

5 years, 5 months ago

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Social graces and nuance is effectively dead. Trying to create any space within any fandom where like minded people gather will always attract those who are attention whores who want to stir up drama or infect that space with the latest brand of SJW/NPC bullshit. While I would admire the effort I just feel it would be a pretty fruitless endeavor. It would create more problems for you and anyone who joined that space. I would just honestly find some way in which you could isolate yourself from the worst aspects of the furry fandom or at least place some distance from it. Might prove to be the better solution.

jaugur

5 years, 5 months ago

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It would be great if at least people wouldn't be on their throats if they don't agree with them in any topic, but it seems as of lately like wishful thinking. And it will probably stay like that for a long time.

Vexio

5 years, 5 months ago

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It would be nice to have a safe place to chat without having to worry about extremist on either side attacking on mass every time someone says anything even slightly controversial

Donniethesmartone

5 years, 5 months ago

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To achieve this in most cases, I feel it means leaving the internet, and having real-world one-on-one time with people (not implying you don't have a life outside of your fingertips) . That might be the only way to get what you're really looking for. Anytime you put something out there for the entire earth to read, and more than likely judge, it's gonna result in the extremes at some point. No matter how simplistic the topic is. It's truly a sign of the times my friend. Where public civility is at an all-time low, while nonesense, bullying, and downright idiocy is on the rise.

Teisu

5 years, 5 months ago

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The answer to that is in reddit; r/furry
;P

smblion

5 years, 5 months ago

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@ Teisu

Hardly. The limitations on acceptable content in that sub borders on liberal fascism.

smblion

5 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 5 years, 5 months ago by Owner

> - Somewhere to chat with no political extremism. Left or right wing. So no commies, fascists, the alt-right, Marxists, anarchists etc etc. Nah mate, gotta grow up some time.

I like this idea at first, but there's a lot of examples of people who's views I used to consider extreme, but with the wisdom of age and experience I can see their side of the coin. If we're talking about growing up, I think being able to tolerate the free speech of people who have wildly different views, even if they're offensive, is a real sign of maturity.

> - Maturity beyond the superficial. You know, somewhere where talking about life or anything serious isn't immediately seen as a threat to happiness. Or ruining the party. I get there are a lot of young people who just want to be flippant and not take anything seriously, but some of us have outgrown it and it's honestly obnoxious.

I'm not entirely sure what this means.. I think cyberbullying ruins our party, not ideas or discussions. There's a category of people who don't give a fuck about life, and who spend their time entertaining themselves by ruining it for everyone else. They hijack our time and environments, they start drama to kill interesting conversations. They shit on everything and some of them do it with the brightest of fake smiles on their faces. You've seen it, you might be having a great conversation about some philosophical thing and 10 minutes later everyone is fighting over some bullshit. They know exactly what they're doing, they've planned, practiced, and perfected their "behavior".

Those people pose a threat to our community, which I've been saying for years in various places (twitter, group chats, my blog..).

What I want most from any social interactions is a way to eliminate the waste of time those people represent. A chat application that allows /muting or /ignoring those people, the way IRC does, works just fine because then they can be blocked without involving moderators. That's important because involving moderators only serves their purposes, because it hijacks whatever is going on to put the spotlight on them. Quietly and privately eliminating them _actually works_, as I have seen proven on IRC.

> - A place without porn everywhere, or the constant using of images in lieu of conversation. So people actually communicate.

I hate when a chat gets overrun by dick pics. On the other hand, I grew up in text only chat rooms, I don't want to go back to that. Stickers are one of my favorite things ever. For years I wished I could simply display an image of my character on FurryMuck instead of relying upon text only descriptions.

And I hate arguments about what constitutes pornography, or what kind of images are socially acceptable. It's all "thought crime" to me. I like naked furry pictures, especially non-pornographic ones. My cat walks around naked, people's dogs walk around naked, and their owners are forced to stare at naked buttholes all day long. I don't see what the fucking issue is. (I do, actually, it's about control, and anything else they claim is a lie.)

> - No demonising people as par for the course, like actively looking for individuals to despise and deride.

Good luck. I've been the victim of this so many times I've given up. Most recently someone even admitted in a chat that he was targeting me specifically and waiting for an opportunity to attack me, and somehow I got banned instead of him. And that's my local furry community. People I've hung out with and had drinks with and hugs and good times.

> - Zero tolerance for crybullying nonsense, people intentionally disrupting conversation to be the centre of attention. No tolerance for manipulation or screwing with people for the pleasure of it.

I dunno why crybullying is, is that like crying wolf? Because I call out bullies when I see them, especially the insidious subtle ones who sometimes don't even realize what they're doing. Bullying ruins social interaction, online and offline, and I personally h

smblion

5 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 5 years, 5 months ago by Owner

hrm, I guess my comment was too long, I didn't know that was a thing.

Anyhow, I said at the end that I know you didn't ask me for my opinion personally, but I hope you find it worthwhile.

Also, I tried to add, about those people who hijack our social interactions to kill conversations, that is a very old tool used by slavers. They know what they're doing, it's not accidental, it's deliberate and with the intention of preventing our community from growing too strong for them, intellectually. It may sound paranoid to our people because we have mostly innocent intentions. But there are really people in the world who view any social group as large and economically powerful as ours as a threat to them. They don't care that we just want to cuddle and collect stuffed toys and artwork, they want to divide us and hold us down and they are acting every single day to that end.

I know I'm right about that because 22 years ago it wasn't happening.

Spuug

5 years, 5 months ago

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The furry fandom is escapist by nature. Trying to ground part of it in reality and maturity is asking for the impossible.

RoareyRaccoon

5 years, 5 months ago

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@ Spuug

Speak for yourself XP. I've come across plenty of sensible furries.

Vanren

5 years, 5 months ago

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>I wanna safe space with only political opinions that don't make me sad
>GIVE ME MY HUGBOX I WANT IT NOW
Liberals get the bullet too. :^)

MadDog

5 years, 5 months ago

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Much as I think the list is good the irony is priceless.

MarcusKoopa

5 years, 5 months ago

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... We're all pretending to be animal people on the internet. Seriously, at what point should reality intrude? How can we even HAVE politics? I'm a giant turtle. You're a fluffy raccoon... We don't HAVE a party for that. Why do we insist on DRAGGING it into the fandom?

RoareyRaccoon

5 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 5 years, 5 months ago by Owner

Politics is inseparable from life, being a furry in the fandom isn't just a hobby for a lot of furs, it forms one's social groups. If you're spending a lot of time with people, you end up discussing everything you're interested in and everything in between, so politics is going to be part of that. Then there's the fact that our fandom has been invaded by people for whom politics is everything and everything is political. People who are miserable, spiteful and eager to demonise individuals for their own sense of comfort and self righteousness. The result is the batshit insanity burning through the fandom for the past several years.

I'm 32, an adult, I like to talk about adult things, like politics. Real life, serious subjects. I'd like to talk to other adults who aren't ideologically possessed zealots or sex-obsessed, vapid bores. We can't create a fulfilling community with any real depth if the only thing about which we are supposed to talk is strictly furry stuff.

If you actually do want that, you can always create a place where that is the case.

MarcusKoopa

5 years, 5 months ago

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Edited 5 years, 5 months ago by Owner

Actually, I think what you want is the cancer that is killing Furry. The problems we have is BECAUSE people are trying to drag adult, serious things into a hobby that is neither. At it's purist it's a celebration of cartoon animals. At it's filthiest, it's a caligula like celebration of the same. I honestly blame our inclusive nature for the issues we have. We let anyone, regardless of how insane, barge in and do whatever they want. People CAN'T have mature, calm, rational discussions about politics, religion, or sex... and now all three have blended together into the new social movement or progressive religion as I like to call it. Now, I'm not saying that no two people could have those conversations, but enmasse? It is simply impossible. That's why those are the Forbidden Topics in polite conversation. They only lead to pain.
Woob... that may have been a little disjointed. Forgive me, I just got off work and my brain is tired.

RoareyRaccoon

5 years, 5 months ago

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You're talking about people who are in their 20s not being able to handle normal, adult discussion. I'm making some spaces where people can talk sensibly instead of panicking just because a subject is too serious. If you want an environment that is strictly about cute cartoon furry stuff with no bad-bad actual life stuff in it, make one. I don't.

MarcusKoopa

5 years, 5 months ago

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Also, I think you're asking a little too much. Nothing is supposed to be a "one stop shop" for all your emotional and mental needs. Why not branch out into other groups just for the things you want? Like join political groups for political stuff? News groups for news stuff? Does it HAVE to be furry?

RoareyRaccoon

5 years, 5 months ago

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I already do. I want a furry place that is capable of basic decency because I'm a fucking artist in this shit, almost all my friends and my income is tied to it. Instead of lecturing me about what furry should and shouldnt be like you're an authority on the subject, go make something. See if you can pull it off. See if you can keep a place happy go lucky without some gatekeeping far lefty arse candle showing up to ruin it. I want to cut the extremism out like the tumour it is and I'm not asking anybody for their opinion on what the fandom ought to be. We don't get to decide that shit. Which includes you. We have to create our own little places for different purposes, if you don't like what I want, don't fucking join it.

MarcusKoopa

5 years, 5 months ago

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Woah, woah.. Easy, man. I'm not attacking you. Hell, I agree with a lot of your points. I just don't think it's possible. Our fandom is very young, particularly in the age of our members and that means they're headstrong, believe they have all the answers, and get fanatical.

RoareyRaccoon

5 years, 5 months ago

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I don't think it is possible in a widespread way either, tis why I'm more interested in forming something small and more personal. I don't think I can change the fandom, but I'm going to at least add to it things I want to see in it

MarcusKoopa

5 years, 5 months ago

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