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Kiffin

TMIT ~ Would you try to change them?

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If as a human, or other, you visited Hush (The shunamir planet) and while there realized that their government was a communist dictatorship under the church but one that seemed on the surface to be working and relatively stable.  Would you try to change the mind of the shopkeeper or the hotel attendant?  Would you stay and patronize the area still?  



With that said i'm open and available for questions about real life or not so real life.
Viewed: 61 times
Added: 6 years ago
 
Launny
6 years ago
if Im the visitor, I have to respect their beliefs = ]
Kiffin
6 years ago
Thanks, what would make you want to try that conversation with them?
Launny
6 years ago
of course I would, it would be awesome to interact and know more about how they live ^^
SenGrisane
6 years ago
Same as Launny. It's not my place.
Kiffin
6 years ago
Thanks, what would make you want to try that conversation with them?
SenGrisane
6 years ago
I have no idea. I am a very shy person and avoid any contact when in public.
axlegear
6 years ago
North Korea is considered 'working and relatively stable'.  So I think a 'functional government' has no mutual inclusivity to morality or even rationality.

So I would simply avoid places like such that would choose to abuse.  If their citizens get tired, they've got their own choices to make.
Kiffin
6 years ago
Thanks!  This was a really interesting read today.  Would you then consider those that are happy under such a "regime" to be unmolested and not in need of help?  So much of the answers are exactly the opposite of what i thought they would be so i am curious.  Please come visit!  I dont bite too much meu
axlegear
6 years ago
Really, a government's people are only as happy as they choose to be.  Clearly, NK is not an example of people who can be happy.
Nor is the US, for that matter.

Two ideologies being comparable is the most irrational excuse to embrace either, when neither is functional.  As such, a government institute which clings to 'we're better than someone else, thus, we're the best!' is doomed to inflexibility and a fatal inability to remain in-touch with it's people and make any actual, meaningful improvements.  The politicial affiliation and details are irrelevent, it's the core concept that's flawed.
Kiffin
6 years ago
How would happiness be found in one's government?   I personally have no examples of such though i am curious on what might be workable principles if you have any ideas on the mater.  If not thanks for the discussion meu
axlegear
6 years ago
Obviously humans have yet to reach a Utopian ideal, so there is none to present.
KevinSnowpaw
6 years ago
even ig i might think other systems are better for there freedom and stability of there entire people if they have found a way to make it work well... when in rome..


it's not my planet and it's not my place.
Kiffin
6 years ago
Please come to rome!  *giggle* thanks for the answer...  though as i asked above.   is there anything that would make you have that conversation with someone you interacted with?
KevinSnowpaw
6 years ago
well that depends a lot on what my observations and experiance were. if things seemed to be normal by my standards at least people were happy commerace seemed to flow without major incident and nobody was being beaten and jailed for saying the wrong thing I might not even notice.

you attest that on the surface it seems to be stable... so since i know for a fact communist dictator ships kill millions in the long run I would have to assume theres some unpleasentness below the serface. I would if i stuck around long enough eventualy get curious and ask questions, probe there everyday lives to see how they differ from my own. what are they allowed to say what are they allowed to do, how do they live and get by? what happends if the state fails to provide for them. what rights do they have what rights do they not have ect.


these things might lead me to try to talk to them about, other ways of doing things.
Kiffin
6 years ago
Thanks for this reply meu bunny.  I will take into consideration in future writings.
CuriousKit
6 years ago
I would respect the religious beliefs and customs of whatever place I visit. I wouldn't want to try to convert them because I know what it feels like to have people attempt to do that to me, and accuse my own beliefs of being evil etc, whether or not it actually is. I would generally try to avoid the conversation in the first place, although if I got into a conversation with a local, I may ask them about their society and customs out of curiosity to learn more about it.

If the dictatorship or religion was inherently evil from the point of view of how it treats, say, children and the disabled, then I might avoid it in the first place, especially if I risk getting labelled an enemy of the state, but I would hope that there would be some change happening from within.  Even then though, if an outside force attempts to encourage an internal revolt, is there an ulterior motive? To use a recent real-life example, it's an open secret that Russia has been supporting and reinforcing Assad and ensuring that the rebels do not win and a democracy set up, because Russia does not want a US ally right on their doorstep. In effect, it's a second cold war, and going back to Shunamir, might an enemy nation attempt the same thing with them?
Kiffin
6 years ago
*giggles* i understand that perspective.  Personal criticism holds no place for thoughts.  Or even actions that dont harm others.  Questions are the best way to learn.  You would find that most are very happy there despite them not knowing there are other ways to live.

Well as to the russia comparison, they are a one world government so no other countries around to take them over.  That said after joining the larger space community there has been and will be questions to answer.  Though it's gone both ways...  some cults of Adar or Adenites have popped up on other worlds.  hehe and unless you went off the beaten path on Hush you would be just fine even if you asked questions.   But leaving that commerce city would not be recommended

Anyway thanks alot for the answer.
MasterTomcat
6 years ago
I don't even try to change the minds of other people in the communist dictatorship under the church that we have here on Earth...
Kiffin
6 years ago
Is there anything that would make you?  Thanks for your answer either way meu!
MasterTomcat
6 years ago
Now that you mention it, I guess that it's better not to try to change other people's mind in any situation
otaking3582
6 years ago
If the government is telling these people how to live their lives and restricting their rights and freedoms, then are they truly happy?

Since I'd probably have to deal w/ a mass retaliation if I assassinated their leader and took over, I'd instead expose the citizens to media that encourages them to undo their brainwashing and overthrow the government themselves.
Kiffin
6 years ago
I think one could conceivably be happy if they dont know they are not "free"

Definitely the most proactive answer meu!  Definitely a Crimson Order candidate.  But yes assassinations tend to make martyrs and enemies.

Thanks for your time in answering.
otaking3582
6 years ago
You're very welcome! It seemed like an interesting question, so I felt the need to give my two-cents~ ^_^
Taiconan
6 years ago
If I'm visiting an alien(to me) world/culture/civilization. I would die my best to be respectful but I'd likely ask BUTT LOADS of questions. Origins of teachings, general consensus around religion and government. (Are the people happy? What do they like about their situation? What don't they like? Etc.) But I think as much as I'd want to share right back, I would have to evaluate very carefully what my thoughts might seed into the culture. I risk, even with the phrasing of my questions, being the intellectual equivalent of an invasive species.

So ultimately I suppose I'd try to keep to myself and ask as innocuous questions I could muster... (even something as simple as, "you do this every day? " could cause a young one to question why they do? I'd likely aim many of my questions at elders (who are generally set in their ways and less likely to have any conflict of thought late in their life... I hope.)

I find every system (even ones I wouldn't agree with, like N.korea) can have tidbits of useful ideas and information and it's important not to lose those simply because they're attached to something percieved as unsavory.
Kiffin
6 years ago
*giggles* far more respect than many would pay meu.  Though once opened up to other cultures some ideas will surely find there way around.  I think being "too" careful to the point of thinking yourself invasive might be putting to much stress on yourself.  Conversation has the interesting benefit of being able to skirt rules without stepping on them to learn and impart information even in fairly locked out societies.

I think your approach is the one i thought would be uniform across the board so it was fairly interesting to see the diverse opinions.

Yes i do actually find a lot of useful features of "tyrannical" governments.  Beyond actual harm (IE: slave labor) I sometimes come to wonder... well no i know that human priorities are not the most useful for growth.  But i wonder if absolute freedom breeds discontentment.  I dont have a good answer for that either way.  I've had both in my life and not knowing in "captivity" about freedom is an interesting thing to look back on but not one that gives me answers.
Taiconan
6 years ago
Perhaps I am over thinking it... I just remember the idea presented in star trek, where they encounter a utopia where there had never been any conflict, and one person's question about their one directional trade being,
"What do you get in return?"
Obviously the society sustains itself through selfless group support, but the question begins to eat at the man, and it ends up unbalancing the entire structure. The idea that there might not be a return on his giving ruined the perceptions of the system.

Obviously it's hyperbole for entertainment but it still provides an interestingly challenging conundrum if you wanted to communicate with them.

I loved a faction in the game warframe, centered around an A.I. named Cephalon Suda. Her goal being the preservation of information and systems
Meaning when something was going extinct she wouldn't stop it, but she would make efforts to capture all the details of its ecosystem and the specimens themselves. The only time She'd act is to prevent catastrophic destruction of a system (some mutated species of bacteria eating everything and then dying uselessly). Leaving millennia worth of data "deleted"and unable to continue generating new data for millions of years. When asked why she doesn't merely simulate, she claims she cannot cover all variables. And if she could, mutation and circumstances can alter results. One could accurately predict every POSSIBLE outcome of a system of variables, but without the primary system for reference... how would you know which stimulation was accurate? One does not know what one does not know. "Hence, preservation of the primary system will provide the most accurate and verbose simulation. For now."

WOW am I rambling! Anyways, you're right I should chill, but I like the idea of not accidentally squishing the butterfly in past because I wasn't paying attention. Sometimes there's no telling what that will do to the future. XD
Kiffin
6 years ago
Thanks for that background heh... One not one person has elaborated even though i do know many players of that game.  (not one myself)

hehe the issue i have with that star trek or any episode like that, is it needs to be compressed for time.   Your influence may play out but you will most likely not be around to see it.  And if you are it will most likely be the influence of many.  Besides would not you think your culture superior and deserving of influence?  *giggles*
Taiconan
6 years ago
Such assumptions of superiority run the same risks. Omission or destruction of potentially useful data. If I introduce Thanksgiving, and the next generation of their kin latch on to it, other meal traditions risk disappearing as soon as a single generation. Sure there will always be fringe cases and exceptions, but I hate the idea of accidentally pushing out ideas/traditions that effectively foster growth/community.
Tacki
6 years ago
Is this really a communist society or is it actually a theocratic caste system?
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