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RoareyRaccoon

Policy Change

by
Soooo, what I've always done on websites is a simple thing: if people talk to me like shit or screw with me, I respond in kind. I don't report people to staff or block people. Previously, for me to block someone they would have to either ask me to or be so persistently bothersome, over multiple submissions, that I lost my patience with them. That's why I currently only have 4 accounts blocked on this site.

Anyway, I have now had two comments sections on two of my submissions locked by staff, I have been reported enough times to be reprimanded twice for my responses to people who began by provoking me. I've also been told by staff that if I have a problem with other people I must block them and/or report them. Well I don't believe in reporting people for being assholes on the internet, because I'm an asshole on the internet. But I will have to start blocking people rather than responding with vitriol or harsh language. I can't very well let other people talk to me however they like, dish back what they gave me and then get reported for it, that's absolutely ridiculous.

So, in future, if you're going to be a dick to me I'm either going to ignore you or block you. Tough shit all round, really XP.

Oh and staff here (or one of them anyway) are fine with lying, just an FYI.

https://imgur.com/a/j6IQe
Viewed: 694 times
Added: 6 years, 7 months ago
 
45 Comments on this Journal
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EstebanG
EstebanG
6 years, 7 months ago
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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner
Can't say I blame you.  Much of the time folks are unable to stay on topic and just shoehorn their own preexisting talking points into things or take selective outrage by context dropping.

I have only ever blocked three people:
1) My stalker, a former collaborator whose emotional problems became too great for me to handle and whom I kicked out of my life in late 1998.  He's been following me around ever since because he can't get on with his life.
2) A creepazoid constantly trying to get me to do free work for him.
3) A woman so involved with herself that she'll interrupt other conversations to talk about why I'm not paying attention to her.

Regrettably, they all keep showing up on whatever sites I'm on.
HellDoradoLion
HellDoradoLion
6 years, 7 months ago
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I feel like i know #3 xD
Danjen
Danjen
6 years, 7 months ago
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Every site is shit for various reasons.
People suck, shit sucks.
Alondite
Alondite
6 years, 7 months ago
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Based Raccoon is at it again!
SylannaMaxwell
SylannaMaxwell
6 years, 7 months ago
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Sorry to hear that things got that bad! Hope you have a nice day.  :3
RockySkunkPunk
RockySkunkPunk
6 years, 7 months ago
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Ew.
Neos8
Neos8
6 years, 7 months ago
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wow that really sucks and reading that info clearly said nothing about endorsement so wow this can get really dumbe when you think about it.
poner41
poner41
6 years, 7 months ago
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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner
the owner should remover that staff member off of mod and/or admin those type of people shouldn't be in that type of power
=w=; you have the proof and possibly remove him/her off of power
Athendae
Athendae
6 years, 7 months ago
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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner
Interesting how that staff member decided to use the mask of the official account. I get the feeling that this was one particular staff member, not the whole of the Inkbunny team and that this individual was using the anonymity granted by staffing privileges to grief you.

"We're going to point your account for making harsh responses towards equally harsh and/or charged comments made on your journal...But it's your fault, not the person making the comment in the first place. If you can't deal with it, block or lock"

Talk about telling someone to go back to their hugbox...
LukaBun
LukaBun
6 years, 7 months ago
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duely noted, just like FA, Inkbunny from the looks of it has a darker, more authoritative side to it, not as out-of-control as FurAffinity under the puppet strings of IMVU however but one that raises concern.

Sorry to hear about your situation my friend, hope things turn out in a better light.
LittleOrion
LittleOrion
6 years, 7 months ago
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I'm really confused about that whole exchange...
Firstly because they claimed you said your views were endorsed by the moderators, which your typed out response the moderator copy pasted there didn't even say, it said that greenreaper understood the issue at hand and decided it didn't violate the ToS, that's clearly what it said, and then the moderator went on to explain that it was how they chose to interpret it? This is where i'm fucking getting cancer, because you can't just decide to interpret something that clearly states something else in a completely different way when it comes to chastising someone for what they said, that would be like me going "Tigerlove above in his previous sentence said FA is run by hitler" which just isn't true because it's not what he said, and there's no discussion about that because it's there and it's plain to see.

My other problem with this is that it's a comment posted on your submission. Although the space you posted is owned by inkbunny, the actual post is your space, people don't have to post commentary on that post, but in MY opinion you have the right to say whatever the fuck you want in response, because its a space specifically designed for you to respond to and engage with the people that comment on that post. I think the fact someone came to say something, you responded and you got reported and told off for a comment you responded with is fucking ridiculous. Generally though i don't know the whole story, but...  i dunno... i feel quite let down by how the moderator handled this scenario, and i do think that greenreaper should probably give them a good talking to, or atleast change the way they deal with comments on peoples shit, because this is all wrong.
SilverFang
SilverFang
6 years, 7 months ago
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Wow wtf. Nowhere in the comments did you say anything about endorsement. Also I find it funny that the SJWs going after you and attacking you are fine to do so, yet when you respond, you're in the wrong. How the fuck is that fair?! This shit reminds me of when I got suspended on FA for me mentioning harassment I was receiving from a bitch who blocked me and then proceeded to spam me and accuse me of shit. Apparently I was the one harassing her when I've never even said a word to her, never commented, nor noted her.  
Maulkin
Maulkin
6 years, 7 months ago
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Yeah, I'm hoping the mod involved gets a kick in the pants; that was incredibly unprofessional of him/her.
dropNchop
dropNchop
6 years, 7 months ago
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Looking over the log, I might be able to see how that could be read as having the sites support. "Try to report me..." would be the key to interpreting the comment that way. As if to say, that the action of reporting the submission would be fruitless, as you have the sites support.  All though the second clause is an independent thought,  I could see someone reading it that way. Also, to say that someone is lying, we need to be able to show that the truth is being purposely bent to fit a narrative.

If someone has misinterpreted what was said, that's not a lie, just a simple mistake. I, nor anyone else, know for sure the accusers intentions, and to make such an accusation is a bit rushed.

Though I think the issue is more then just the comment alone. I could see how the moderation team might take issue with having to step in and lock threads that could be handled by users.
And if the issue is flame wars breaking out then people need to show some emotional responsibility and not continue to provoke attacks.  
 
KaloTheSkunk
KaloTheSkunk
6 years, 7 months ago
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Yeah really. Bunch of malarkey is what. Absolutely ridiculous.
Talk down to people how ever they want. And lose their damn minds when someone does it back.
Protip for our politically correct bedroom dwellers. Not everyone is content to just lay there and take that kind of crap from some trumped up school child. Not everyone you speak to is some "alt-right troll" or a "Trump supporter". We simply will not have any lip from you or tolerate people gathering lists of names.
nekkofox
nekkofox
6 years, 7 months ago
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I believe in the traditional 4chan responses to people, myself.
lazor
lazor
6 years, 7 months ago
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Reading what they told you actually made my head hurt.
KevinSnowpaw
KevinSnowpaw
6 years, 7 months ago
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You did not say you had mod endorsement so yeah that is bullshit. As for the rest yeah... If your being civil and sombody else us being toxic and dropping fbombs ect just report them
Kadm
Kadm
6 years, 7 months ago
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I'll take personal responsibility for Roarey being upset, but note that it was a collective decision and that the response was reviewed by the entire moderation team (there are only 6 of us, and 5 were active at the time this was occurring, https://inkbunny.net/adminsmods_process.php). Normally matters involving punishment are considered private, but since the entire thing has been posted here I don't feel like it's a particular faux pas.

There's no problem if you want to have a controversial discussion. But if things are consistently insulting or derogatory on every single post (even if there is some valid discussion), then it's a pattern of negative behavior. We acknowledge that some people attack Roarey and his point of view. Those people are punished privately, just as Roarey was if they're reported.

Roarey's comments in these threads are clearly and frequently a violation of the site's TOS as he directly attacks other users involved in these discussions. It does not matter if they attacked him first. Report them. Responding to a negative behavior with negative behavior is not the way to act, and Inkbunny is not a site purposed specifically for 'assholes on the internet'. We are a furry art community, and escalating a discussion to vitriolic rhetoric is a violation of our Terms.
RoareyRaccoon
RoareyRaccoon
6 years, 7 months ago
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I've already said in the notes I screened that I accepted that I was in breach of the TOS with the way I responded to people. My gripe was with you saying I pretended inkbunny endorsed me. I don't need you to police my responses to people or police peoples responses to me, but its fine by me if you reprimand me for being vitriolic in my responses to people who speak to me like shit. If you're applying your own standards equally I don't give a shit. You've deliberately taken what I said out of context, unless you expect me to believe that 5 people are this stupid.
Kadm
Kadm
6 years, 7 months ago
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That is literally how a majority of us read it, and a consensus was reached regarding the response. You are not an absolute authority on how people interpret things, and we are not 'lying' because we read your statement differently. At the very least, the tone of the entire post felt like you were daring the Staff to do something, because GR would say no.
RoareyRaccoon
RoareyRaccoon
6 years, 7 months ago
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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner
Okay, then I guess 5 staffers are that stupid. Fair enough. I have since explained to you what I meant, which is identical with what I wrote and all you did in response was hide behind your authority. You reek of bias. And no, that arsehole after losing an argument tried to say my cartoons violated the TOS to find another way to argue with them, so I told him the site admin knew about them and left them up. Simple.
Kadm
Kadm
6 years, 7 months ago
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It doesn't matter what you meant. We don't ask nicely "Hey, what did you mean by this when you posted it?" before we take action against an account. If you think that's how running a website works, then I feel like you're naive. Even if there's an innocent interpretation, the sinister one is there.

I have a personal disdain for you, that much is true. That's why when I make decisions regarding you, I ensure that they are reviewed by several other people before action is taken.
RoareyRaccoon
RoareyRaccoon
6 years, 7 months ago
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Yeah, you are supposed to fucking ask if the thing you're reading into someone's words isn't actually there. So you can read anything you like, regardless if the person has actually said it, and go on that? I HAVE run a website, it was a forum with well over ten thousand members and I did it for ten years. I didn't enforce rules on people for things they didn't say, because I'm not a fool. All community rule sets will be interpretive, that's unavoidable, but that doesn't mean your interpretative discretion extends to inventing fucking motives and putting words into peoples mouths. Don't talk to me about running a site because you do a pisspoor job of it.
Kadm
Kadm
6 years, 7 months ago
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You are always free to go to all those other furry sites that haven't banned you if you don't like how this one is run.
RoareyRaccoon
RoareyRaccoon
6 years, 7 months ago
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No shit, Sherlock.
Kadm
Kadm
6 years, 7 months ago
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But really, slightly snarky reply about your total lack of alternatives aside:

You haven't been banned here. Simply told to be civil. Even if you get a W in the argument that you weren't saying we had your back, you still violated the previous warning you got. The second warning (with no actual consequences, except the deletion of the offending comments) is justified enough just on that.

I stand by my interpretation, given my experience with you, that you clearly meant that no one would do anything regardless of what you did, and that GR had your back. Maybe it wouldn't read like that if you didn't project with so much ego. Even the staff that aren't personally familiar with you thought your comment was inappropriate given the context of the rest of the thread.
Athendae
Athendae
6 years, 7 months ago
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Context means absolutely nothing then?
Kadm
Kadm
6 years, 7 months ago
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Absolutely! We reviewed the entire submission for context, and warned several individuals. The context of Roarey's post only makes it look worse than it does on it's own.
Athendae
Athendae
6 years, 7 months ago
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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner
" Kadm wrote:
It doesn't matter what you meant. We don't ask nicely "Hey, what did you mean by this when you posted it?" before we take action against an account.

That is literally taking action without the context of the motive or meaning behind the event...

I mean, sure, you guys get a crapnugget of stuff every day to deal with, but this was clearly a very contentious topic, and if you were going to take out this much time to deal with it...Getting the actual literal meaning of what the person said from them directly would be the best thing to do...

Edit: (Stupid me responded to the incorrect post)
Kadm
Kadm
6 years, 7 months ago
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Someone could have the most innocent motive in the world, but violating the rules is violating the rules. The post was a violation purely on the insulting portion.

I should also point out that the support process is entirely private. Roarey suffers no injury as a result of being told that we do not endorse his content. We don't make a news item calling him out. We remove the offending content, and warn the users involved.

In a parallel world, we don't include the text regarding endorsement, and Roarey still has a warning to not do this again or face consequences. Roarey still has to change his behavior, but maybe he feels less hurt in this world?


Athendae
Athendae
6 years, 7 months ago
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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner
The point I'm making isn't about Roary being an asshole and saying questionable or downright mean things in retaliation to people in his comment section. I've only discovered him recently and I can already tell that his general attitude is combative when he's provoked, but that doesn't make him a bad person.

ANYWAYS..MY point was about your claims that he essentially said "I have Inkbuny staff support, you can't do anything tome, hurrdedurrhurrhurr" when it very flatly said "the content was reviewed by an admin and was deemed to not violate the TOS." Then, when he corrected you on your incorrect assumption, your response in the discussion showcased AND in other comments of this very journal was "I don't care, that's how I interpreted it, so it doesn't matter what you actually meant"

Edit: The other comment in this journal that imentioned seems to no longer be here, either that or i grossly misread something (but i don't think that's the case.)
Kadm
Kadm
6 years, 7 months ago
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Put it in context then. You have only recently discovered Roarey. But he has over half a decade of history with the community. I don't think anything he says is flat. I don't think Roarey is dumb. I may disagree with him, and think he argues against his own self interest, but I don't think he's dumb. I think he knew exactly what he was saying with what he typed, but it certainly allows him a plausible deniability, doesn't it? You can allude to something, and then deny it when someone actually calls you out.

I also ended the discussion in the PM with Roarey because inevitably, the argument doesn't change the outcome. As I highlighted above, he's warned regardless of the endorsement portion. He has his view, and we have our view.

Athendae
Athendae
6 years, 7 months ago
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Maybe he knew what he was saying or not. But if that's the case, why would he go out of his way to correct someone(that he dislikes with great intensity) about something(that doesn't affect the decision being made), in a private conversation?

Maybe he IS clever, but do you really think he's clever enough to say something in a journal, that he knew you would take incorrectly, so that he could argue about it in a private reprimand, and then post the conversation? All just for the keks and lulz?

Or...OR...Hear me out more, this might be crazy...Do you think that he's just straight up pissed that you based part of your decision on an incorrect assumption that you refused to admit you were wrong about and he's calling you out on it?
Kadm
Kadm
6 years, 7 months ago
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Do I think that a person who was reported and reprimanded for a comment admitting to vilifying people (and insulting people in the same comment) would do something just to troll? Yea. He's a self-admitted 'asshole on the internet'. It's pretty hard to defend him as upset for that characterization when he applied it to himself.
Athendae
Athendae
6 years, 7 months ago
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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner
Nonono, not just any random "something." Anyone can do a random something for the sake of trolling. I'm talking about this very specific thing we are discussing right now.

Do you honestly believe he orchestrated this, as you seem to imply?
Kadm
Kadm
6 years, 7 months ago
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I don't believe he expected a staff response. I do believe that his comment was trolling and implying he was above reproach. That's the extent of it. Maybe when I wrote the initial warning, I should have separated out the part regarding the 'endorsement', so it didn't appear to weigh as heavily as the actual TOS violation. But as a group we were in agreement that the response was appropriate.
Athendae
Athendae
6 years, 7 months ago
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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner
It was a very simple yes or no question, but, fine, I guess I can accept this answer. Anyways, I'm tired of continuing to necro this conversation in an attempt to get you to admit the fault on your conduct with this situation, not the judgement that was made (that you keep bringing up...)
Kadm
Kadm
6 years, 7 months ago
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I can understand your frustration, but I find that in complex situations, there are rarely 'yes or no' answers available. That said, this is how you conduct a discussion, and if all of Roarey's threads looked like this, he wouldn't have warnings.
LipeRinehart
LipeRinehart
6 years, 7 months ago
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Twats....  GG Inkbunny Staff  :/
I thought you guys were better than that.
KichigaiKitsune
KichigaiKitsune
6 years, 7 months ago
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Cannot possibly be worse here than on FA or even major social media sites.
KichigaiKitsune
KichigaiKitsune
6 years, 7 months ago
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Well, this is inevitable when people think they can have a useful discussion or make a persuasive point without remaining civil; and then that they can piss and moan when people respond in kind.

I don't necessarily agree with Roarey, but it isn't hard to muster the intellectual honesty to consider that perhaps he holds his beliefs honestly and consideration, right or wrong, and with good intentions. If you don't approach things that way, you aren't going to change anyone's mind. I personally haven't seen him be a complete dick unprovoked (terse and arrogant, perhaps, but you will come across that way when you are responding to an avalanche of argumentative comments), and he even tags his submissions if they contain a political message so they can be easily blacklisted. If you dislike hearing opinions that might be contrary to your own, then obviously you should have this stuff blocked. If your first reaction is one of anger and vitriol, you're not suited to discussing the subject at all.
 
Been debating online for a decade, trust me, you won't affect social change or change anyone's mind like that.

I'm stunned at how much this stuff is getting blown out of proportion. I suppose it's fun to see something like this on a quiet little site like InkBunny, everyone is getting in on it.
anonymousih
anonymousih
6 years, 7 months ago
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Edited 6 years, 7 months ago by Owner
"If people fuck with you (physically or otherwise) unprovoked, it's their right. If you dare retaliate, even with a lesser intensity, you're worse than Hitler." Our world, ladies and gents.

BTW Roarey, don't equate your kind of "self-proclaimed assholery" with the kind of assholes that spew and endorse such BS. If by you being an asshole, you meant you being harsh in your words but fair, that's infinitely better than trolls who couldn't care less for fairness (and many times, harshness is needed to get a point across). If you meant you're someone anti-social and cold, at least you're not expressing this side of you on the net to make others' lives worse. I could say it's like equating a coroner to a knife murderer, or a hateful policeman who still abides by a fair law with a terrorist.
KimbaLion
KimbaLion
6 years, 7 months ago
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sounds okey =^^=
CottonCandyPanda
CottonCandyPanda
6 years, 7 months ago
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Just a quick thought on the matter that reminded me of a saying. If you meet an asshole in the morning, an asshole in the afternoon and an asshole at night, then you're the asshole.
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