Welcome to Inkbunny...
Allowed ratings
To view member-only content, create an account. ( Hide )
BunnyFoxglove

PayPal Fees....

Okay, I've had this discussion with a few artists now, and for the most part I've never had any issues once I explained to them that a surcharge to cover paypal fees is against the ToS. But I just wanna know how many of you actually DO pay those fees.

I mean, personally I won't pay them. I'll just commission another artist first. If the artist is that dead set on not paying the $1.50 in fees for the service they're using, then they're not desperate enough for the work. When I use a bank machine, and it charges me fees I don't go to the store and tell them they need to pay the fees or I'm not shopping there. Could you imagine that?

The service costs money, and it's the person receiving the money that is expected to pay the fees. It's what encourages the consumers to use the service, and there-by encourages them to buy your product. In this case it's art (or the time/effort to make the art how ever you want to look at it). But regardless, that's how the service works.

" PayPal User Agreement wrote:
4.1 Receiving Personal Payments.
If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.

4.7 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.


Now I'm not gonna go run and tell PayPal on other people, I'm not that petty. I just take a personal stance on being asked to pay the fees. But just so everyone knows, the seller shouldn't be asking for them.

I've seen the argument that some of the art we buy is also against the rules, but two wrongs don't make a right. Why impose more risk than is necessary. I've also seen PayPal used on adult sites, so I kind of don't think they really care that much anyways. So long as you don't make it blatantly obvious you're buying porn.

Anyways, know your rights. Use your brain. Be a smart consumer. :3
Viewed: 92 times
Added: 5 years, 1 month ago
 
DarkTailskp
5 years, 1 month ago
I mainly use the "friends and family" option unless I'm told by the artist not too.
LunatheDusky
5 years, 1 month ago
i usually do that myself because most artist do not tell me not to.....sometimes i get yelled at for doing so.....but i mean its not like i put any notes in it
BunnyFoxglove
5 years, 1 month ago
Too many of them and it red-flags the account. PayPal watches them, and makes sure there's nothing fishy going on. Some people have had their accounts frozen from people doing it for donations.
LunatheDusky
5 years, 1 month ago
yeah i know......but as i said, they don't tell me not to so i try not to assume
DarkTailskp
5 years, 1 month ago
And they get all the money why yell?
BunnyFoxglove
5 years, 1 month ago
Because as I stated, it can red-flag their account, or even get the account frozen. If someone sent it to me like that I would yell too, because they're putting my account at risk for no reason.
DarkTailskp
5 years ago
Why would "send to friends and family" freeze your account they might as well not even have that option?
BunnyFoxglove
5 years ago
The reason is because they monitor it to make sure people aren't violating the User Agreement. One or two personal transactions is fine, but when you start receiving them regularly it raises red flags to say something is possibly wrong. Either someone is using it as a dump to funnel stolen account funds into, or they're making people pay the fees on transactions.

A frozen account can be unfrozen if you call them, and explain what happened provided the story is believable. I sent an artist a personal transfer because they needed a lot of money or they would lose their house. I didn't want them to lose a big chunk of the money, and it was legitimately a personal transfer. Her account was frozen for suspicion, and she had to call them directly to get it resolved. So it does happen, and has happened to other artists who received too many donations via personal transfers.
DarkTailskp
5 years ago
Ah, well that's whether stupid. XD Why can't they personally message with a warning?
BunnyFoxglove
5 years ago
Because they have millions of users, and the system is automated.
DarkTailskp
5 years ago
Ah..well that's a problem.
LunatheDusky
5 years, 1 month ago
only time I pay a fee is like when it says "a fee of such and such change will be deducted for using such and such form of payment"

I mean generally its like pocket change what they ask for so that's fair but I never pay artist if they say "I need you to also cover what paypal takes from me" personally as the average of that fee is 4% artist should take that 4% into their pricing to begin with......say you intend on making 10 dollars.......if you really want to have that 4% covered by the commmissioner just up it to 12 dollars and there you go

but I have seriously seen artist saying "pay all fees associated" so I don't do business with them ((with exception to Vannie because they rock and its usually no more than 89 cents on my end))

BunnyFoxglove
5 years, 1 month ago
I believe the fee is actually 2.9% + $0.30 something in that neighborhood. But you would be surprised how many artists say "use personal payment" or "use this tool to calculate the fees before sending". Stuff of that nature.
LunatheDusky
5 years, 1 month ago
it could be tho when i received a donation of 100 last year when i was going to see my dad they took like 4 something out of the donation
BunnyFoxglove
5 years, 1 month ago
From what I understand if they send it as personal, and ask you to pay the fees it can be higher than 2.9 + $0.30. Somewhere around 3.9% + fixed fee.
LunatheDusky
5 years, 1 month ago
yeah that might be it :( anyways i agree with you on the required fees bit, they shouldn't ask their commissioners to cover that
jorun1981
5 years, 1 month ago
I myself allways pay the artist a bit more since I know that allways a little bit is taken ass fee for paqypal but I do it myself and artists never ask for it or say I have to do.
You think it´s wrong?
BunnyFoxglove
5 years, 1 month ago
I think it's fine if you want and choose to do so. I don't do it, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to pay it. Only that you don't HAVE to pay it. I sometimes pay extra as a tip, or even send a second payment as a tip later. But I don't usually pay for the fees upfront, and I won't commission an artists that forces it.

Just a personal opinion, there's no real right or wrong.
jorun1981
5 years, 1 month ago
Ah okay. Fees sometimes are different too I think, aren´t they?
BunnyFoxglove
5 years, 1 month ago
Standard fees are 2.9% + $0.30 so the more it costs, the more the fees are. But it's pretty minor. A $50 commission would cost them $1.75 in fees, so they would still make $48.25. Fees can vary if you send it by personal payment.
darkd
5 years, 1 month ago
The fees should be in the calculations or noted beforehand...
When you buy anything from an onlineshop they will not ask you for paying the fees as their either included in the calculations or in the "shipment options".

For the Paypal fees themselves ... well.. I think their too high, not only for the percentage of the money they want but for other reasons. But thats OT. ^^
Also OT... DAMN its THAT fox ... x>
BunnyFoxglove
5 years, 1 month ago
You can't include them in the shipping options, that's actually specifically stated in the rules. I wouldn't say that fees are calculated into their prices already. You'll notice most prices online are still like $29.99 so it's not like they're just tacking it on after. It's taken into consideration, but fees are handled differently for businesses. Business accounts are a lot different than a normal account (which most artists use).
FoxiGraff
5 years, 1 month ago
" bunnyfoxglove wrote:
When I use a bank machine, and it charges me fees I don't go to the store and tell them they need to pay the fees or I'm not shopping there. Could you imagine that?


Actually I kinda can since stores around my way have no problem charging you extra fees that they might incur upon a transaction. Namely Credit card surcharges. If you pay with a credit card they charge you an extra service fee to process the transaction. This fee is normally charged to the merchant but some business will seek to recuperate any loss they may acquire no matter how small. Many places have laws against passing on these charges to a customer but over the last year my city lifted that restriction.

Personally it doesn't bother me too much as I could always just comply with the little megger charge or take my business elsewhere to a facility that doesn't charge extra for credit transactions.
starling
5 years, 1 month ago
If you charge the same fee for all transaction types, then it's not breaking the Paypal TOS. :P

Interestingly this rule is broken by millions of stores worldwide that process Credit Cards. Mastercard, VISA, Amex, etc all have the same rule but sooo many stores all charge extra if you pay by credit card, and some only charge the fee if you pay by a certain credit card type. Naughty!
rnixon
5 years, 1 month ago
Ah, but that's different! It's not a charge for paying by card. That's not allowed. It's a discount for using 'preferred payment methods' like cash or debit! That's perfectly okay.

The soda machines at my employer have credit card readers on them and little signs that say 'Prices posted reflect a 10% cash discount.'
starling
5 years, 1 month ago
Yeah that's the same trick we used on IB when we were accepting Paypal for sales. :P Discount the preferred methods (the ones that don't charge the seller so much1).
BunnyFoxglove
5 years, 1 month ago
Yes, I agree. If they raised their prices a couple dollars there's no issue. I only have an issue when they specifically tell you to break the User Agreement. Their prices should already cover all their costs, plus make them a profit. That's just how business works. And in this case, the fees are pretty minor anyways. Most times they won't exceed $2 unless you're paying a lot.
CocoaKrad
5 years, 1 month ago
I go to the transfer money and click paying for goods or services. There is never any fee
rnixon
5 years, 1 month ago
Artists should simply assume that they are going to be paid via PayPal and adjust their prices accordingly.

If you know PP is going to sock a couple of bucks in fees, raise your price by five bucks. Most furry artists -drastically- undercharge, anyway. We're already getting a hell of a bargain from furry artists as it is.
Alaskafox
5 years, 1 month ago
I never EXPECT people to pay the fee :P
I belive last night in my stream i explained this. it seems harsh but you are right, if an artist cant accept that (ussualy under 5$) fee, they arent desperate enough to work. or simply they really dont NEED the rest of the money they would get after the fee.
MightBeFurry
5 years, 1 month ago
I admit to "rounding up" as a tip more often than not. I have dealt with one artist whose policy says "if you don't cover the fees, that's not a complete payment"; I was ignorant of PayPal's TOS on that note, and I tipped them anyway... hmm... o_o; I have to bring this to their attention now, don't I >_< .
BunnyFoxglove
5 years, 1 month ago
Well in all honesty, it's up to you what you are and are not willing to pay. I take a stance against it, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to. I don't believe it's good business to ask someone to violate the User Agreement. You either add a few dollars to all the prices, or suck it up. The charges are cheap enough anyways.
Melkiah
5 years ago
I lost over 100 USD in fees last month to paypal. I'm going to charge the fee, and you know what. You're right. I'm not desperate to do yours or any commission. If I want to make real money, I'll sell real exhibitions for 5 times the current pricing in the furry community. Get real.
BunnyFoxglove
5 years ago
Feel free to do as you please, the journal is directed at consumers not the artists. Since you have stated your opinion though I'll give mine.

My last paycheque I lost almost $400 alone (about $800 a month), that's the price of working. By my calculations $100 in fees means that you made somewhere near $3500 (which is almost the same as what I make) that month give or take. I'd say the $100 fee is hardly something to complain about by comparison.
New Comment:
Move reply box to top
Log in or create an account to comment.